The Ship Model Forum

Hello folks,
On Dec 7 after I delivered a speech, a USMC MSgt approached me and said his great-grandfather was supposedly aboard the Arizona in the 30's but they weren't sure if any of the surviving photos are from the 'Zona. He sent me 6, and I told him I thought the 3rd held the key, as it shows the ship's superstructure, a little. It certainly does appear like the Arizona's in the 30's but I wanted to submit them to better scrutiny in here. What do you think? Yes Arizona or No? Or just Maybe?

I'm afraid I don't know the Arizona well enough to answer your question. However I'm intrigued by the blast bag detail of the main gun turret in the background of the photo you posted:



Looks like only the top half of a blast bag. Hard to see what difference that would make in terms of keeping water out? Rain, wind and sea spray would surely still enter the exposed lower half of the gun port.

An interesting detail. It is a decision for when I ever get around to modelling Arizona. Blast bags or not? Though based on that photo half a blast bag now seems to be an option too!

In your first photo, this style of triple turret was was only aboard the BB 36 and BB 38 classes. In NavSource photos of those four ships, only Arizona also has these portable white covers for the gun ports. I don't know whether the others photos are definitive.

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If all of those photos were taken aboard the same ship which appears to be the case then, yes, that is indeed USS Arizona before her final refit.

Anyone watch the Arizona explosion film and see what else is going on around that fateful moment? This is a screenshot from youtube about a second before. You can see how bad the list on the West Virginia was.

Another screenshot at about 8-10 seconds after the explosion you can see the masts of the Tennessee and West Virginia.

Just after the hand pointing to the sky disappears.
At the extreme left edge of the frame, you can see the listing Oklahoma. The superstructure and forecast of the Tennessee about to be blocked from view by Arizona's fireball.

It has always bugged me that this film is backwards. In this still, you can actually see both of USS Oklahoma's masts. Even this version is cropped a bit. I can't find it right now but I recently saw a version of this film that captured USS Maryland's mainmast as well. I'll try to dig that one up.


Here are some still's of the film that the History Channel colorized. It's pretty well done.

Here are screenshots from the short colorized movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZUpXZ7aDaY covering moments after explosion. Check green and red lines. Green ones show the original position and the red ones show how foremast jumped several meters up and listed some 10 degrees backward. That had to be a tremendous energy.

Here is a crappy version crop showing both masts of Oklahoma in the lower middle of this shot. Maryland's mainmast is visible on the far right.

It wasn't just the formats that "jumped", it looks like the forward superstructure before it collapsed into the main and lower decks.

Slow down the motion picture of the blast and the lifting action and force become easier to discern. The superstructure and turrets were literally thrown upward a considerable distance, then fall into the void in the hull created by the blast. See the following video starting at about 1:40. The slow motion part starts at about 1:50.

Link for full screen view: https://youtu.be/EqYO9nT4MtU



Look closely at the video in slow motion and you can see that the whole forward superstructure and both forward turrets are violently thrown up a considerable distance, no doubt instantly crushing many standing on those decks and platforms. How some crewmembers in the Mk.19 fire control directors survived the sudden and violent lifting action is a mystery. You can also just make out the funnel collapsing to the right.

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Does anyone have a copy of the Charles Landrum’s USS Arizona articles that used to be on the Roll Models site? I tried to contact Mr Landrum directly through this site ( he seems to be active not too long ago), but have had no response so far.

Thank you,

Kurt

Hey guys! Researching for my 1/200 Arizona build. Because of the 5D color questions, I am looking at a possible mid 1941 time frame hoping to do a 5D scheme, with 5D gray. Want to do the overall gray Kingfishers, pre Blue-Gray period ( If possible). I want to be as historically correct as I can. I am thinking I will need to do range clocks if I fall in that time frame, with no radar platform. Is this at all historically possible or just wishing upon a star? Thanks, Andy

Hi Andy,
I think a safe bet for all the details on your list was her appearance in June, July, and August of 1941. She was painted in MS-1 at the end of May '41. I don't have any photos of her planes during these three months but I do of other Battleships during this same time frame and their planes were overall light gray. There is film footage and photos of her planes on Sept. 5-9, 1941. By this time the planes were in the two tone Blue/Gray appearance.
She kept her range clocks into at least mid August. The clocks were removed before her radar platform was installed. I don't have exact dates yet but these 2 alterations on her appearance did not happen at the same time.

Hi Jeff, I appreciate your reply. That scenario is exactly what I was hoping for. I also enjoyed your Arizona build, that is a beautiful tribute to her and her crew. Thanks, Andy

I've collected a bit more info on USS Arizona's final six weeks prior to her demise.
USS Pennsylvania and USS Nevada's logs generated the most information. I still have a couple of unanswered questions about Arizona during these weeks but I'm pretty happy with what information the various ships logs gave me.
Here is a day to day of USS Arizona's movements from the time she entered Drydock #1 on Oct. 27, 1941 until Dec.7, 1941.

Oct. 27 - 1350 USS Arizona entered Drydock #1 to repair damage caused by collision with USS Oklahoma
Oct.28 through Nov.11- in Drydock #1
Nov. 12 - 0858 USS Arizona undocked Drydock #1 and moored at Berth B-2
Nov. 13 - 0814 USS Oklahoma moved into Drydock #1. 1003 USS Arizona underway and stood out.
Nov. 14 - At sea. 0612 met up with USS Nevada.
Nov. 15 - At sea with USS Nevada and independently.
Nov. 16 - At sea with USS Nevada and independently.
Nov. 17 - 0920 USS Arizona stood in and moored at 1007. Berth F-8. USS Nevada moored to her port side.
Nov. 18 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada moored to her port side. Fire on Arizona. Away Fire and Rescue Party. 1613 USS Pennsylvania underway from Berth F-7, heads out to sea with USS Tennessee and USS Nevada.
Nov. 19 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. 1555 USS Pennsylvania, USS Tennessee, and USS Nevada return to Pearl. USS Nevada moored at Berth F-7. Milton Hurst arrives at Pearl aboard USS Chaumont after attending Aircraft Instrument School on the East Coast of America. Milton was interviewed by Paul Stillwell on 12/2/1989. Milton stated in Stillwell’s book that USS Arizona is not the same light gray as when he left her. She is now painted dark gray with light gray tops.
Nov. 20 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 21 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 22 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 23 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 24 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 25 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 26 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 27 - At Pearl. Berth F-8. USS Nevada at Berth F-7
Nov. 28 - 06:55 USS Arizona and USS Nevada underway enroute Operating Areas in accordance with Comtaskfor TWO Operation Order Sortie Plan 112.
Nov. 29 - At Sea. 0852 USS Oklahoma left Drydock and moored at 1010 dock.
Nov. 30 - At Sea. 0545 USS Oklahoma got underway and stood out. 1715 formed column Arizona, Oklahoma, Nevada.
Dec. 1 - At Sea.
Dec. 2 - At Sea.
Dec. 3 - At Sea.
Dec. 4 - At Sea.
Dec. 5 - 0920 USS Arizona stood in and moored at Berth F-7.
Dec. 6 - Berth F-7
Dec. 7 - Attack.

Ive been working my way through all 128 pages of this thread for an upcoming build. Does anyone have any experience comparing the various Etch sets available for the 1:200 Trumpeter

In reference to Jeff Sharp's entries on page 127 of this thread, specifically the ones dated Oct 31, 2021 and Nov 05, 2021;

Yes, ARIZONA was hit four times, not just two (I firmly believe). Hit No. 1 is given to the impact on the faceplate / side armor of turret #4. Hit No. 4 is the one credited for the forward magazine explosion. Hits No's 2 and 3 are the ones that seem to be debated.

There is evidence (including the NPS / Youtube piece shown earlier) of the hit on the port side around frame 83, where the bomb deflected off the #10 5"/51 casemate (see movie still below) and then penetrated the foredeck above the Executive Officer's office and was supposedly located in a meat locker two decksdown. one account (NPS / Youtube) claims it detonated in the meat locker whereas another account (Raymer) claims the bomb was removed. Nonetheless, there is sufficient evidence that the hit occured there. Additionally it was one of the originally reported hits, as it would have been plainly visible since that section of deck was not submerged at the time of the initial survey.



I am mildly miffed at this particular hit as I reported the evidence to the NPS (though they already knew about it, yet failed to acknowledge it) and they neither did further investigation nor appeared at all interested.

The other debated hit should be found around frame 94, near the boat storage area. I have no further evidence outside of eye witness claims, and that area was underwater by the end of the attack.

Diver, thanks for your post. Never noticed the damage above casement opening! There is evidence of the hit in MB storage area. First, from the original Damage Report dated January 28, 1942 item 2.b.3: "One 500lb bomb hit at Frame 96, port side of quarterdeck in M.B. Storage, depth of penetration not known, width of hole in deck is approximately 24 inches". Coming so soon after the attack and specifying the width of the hole makes it, to me, highly credible. In addition Raymer book states that his original exploration of the workshop on deck 3 was intended to locate and remove the unexploded bomb believed located there.