The Ship Model Forum

I shall stop calling it the armoured belt then, since that isn't actually visible. But in any case that's the blister I'm using as a reference point, which sits well above the waterline as designed but seems mostly submerged in WWII service. I'm satisfied now that this was the case and that what the plans booklet calls "emergency draught" may have been actually quite common.

A still of Sara April '41.

Pretty late to this thread, but Friedman's US Carriers book noted the fact that by '43/'44, Sara was badly overweight. So much so that the armoured belt was a foot below the waterline despite the blisters, and stability could be critically endangered by as little as one or two near-miss bombs that opened the hull near the waterline. The ship reported displacement as high as 52,500 tons battle ready, of which which BuShips was skeptical. However, even at 48,000+ tons on a nominal design displacement of 36,000 tons, things were clearly not good. BuShips recommended that the CO very carefully manage the voids in the torpedo protection system to avoid critical stability problems in the event of almost any hull damage at all.

In view of this I'd say that even though the keel-to-flight-deck distance would likely not have changed, the waterline-to-flight-deck distance undoubtedly shrank from commissioning to early war to final refits.

_________________
... Brian

can anyone identify this object? Photo was taken in 1942

Most likely a Mk 44 director: https://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57mk.htm

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

The conversation in this thread got me hooked, and I was wondering what pictures were provided for Model Monkey by Dick J to draw the late 1941 funnel version of SARA. Would it be possible to share those?

Thank you very much!

Akos Gergely

Here you go.

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-Steve L.

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Thank you so much!

Do you have a date on the 1st pic?

Thanks,

Akos

I'm sorry, I don't have an accurate date for that photo other than to say summer-fall, 1941. Similar photos with aircraft in the same colors were taken aboard in early October, 1941 (Doyle, pg. 97) so maybe that photo was part of the same group of photos taken at the same time. Therefore, best guess: early October, 1941.

Sara completed the refit that added the large Oerlikon platform on the funnel and the widening of her flight deck at the bow on 28 April 1941 at Bremerton, Washington. Sometime in late October or early November, she entered Puget Sound Navy Yard where her AA defenses were improved. It is not clear exactly what changed during that refit. That work was complete by 2 December 1941 and she sortied to San Diego to pick up her air group. She arrived at San Diego on 7 December 1941. She sortied for Pearl Harbor the next day.

In January, 1942, Sara was struck by a submarine-launched torpedo. Initial repairs were conducted at Pearl Harbor where her 8" turrets were removed and used as part of coastal defenses there where they served in that role until 1948. She received four 5"/38 Mk.32 mounts in their place. She then went on to Puget Sound for permanent repairs and extensive modifications which lasted from February to May 1942. It was at Puget Sound her funnel was cut down to a lower height, her island significantly modified, she gained Mk.37 directors, her hull was blistered, and her flight deck extended aft, among other mods. Sistership Lexington did not survive long enough to receive similar mods, unfortunately.

Below is a well-know photo of sistership Lexington. Note that the large Oerlikon platform on Lexington's funnel is positioned much higher on the funnel than the platform on Saratoga's funnel. This means that to build an accurate Saratoga 1941 model, a Lexington 1941 model kit's funnel is not a good match.

Hope this helps.

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby

Do somebody know what was the deck painting of Saratoga in 1942/43? How was the lines on the flight deck arranged at?

I have been keeping my eyes out for official documentation on deck markings at NARA but haven't come across anything yet (I haven't REALLY gone looking either though, mostly trying little side quests here and there). The flight deck would have been covered with 250N Blue Flight Deck stain. This photo does not appear to show any deck lines, but it is unclear when in 1942 it was taken, and at that time deck markings were to be painted with Deck Stain 251N, which matched 5-O Ocean gray and can be very hard to pick out in photos at this distance.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ahoy!
I look at the setup during the Rabaul mission (November 1943)
If possible, few questions from newbie:
- Sarah had nine (9) Mk 51 Gun Director for Quad 40 mm Bofors Mount? Right?
- 20 mm Oerlikon had a Mk 14 sight (Mk 14 Gunsight was an integral part of the Mk 51 director)?

Tamiya Saratoga 1944 model, already has 21 Mk 51 Director (new configuration for more bofors)

Ok, first post. New guy, done lurking, thought I'd jump in. I have a 1/350 Saratoga in progress. I'm working on gun galleries/catwalks. It seems all the "railings" are chain passed through loops on stanchions, so I think "swagged" railings are more correct. There are open top chocks for lines to pass through to the bollards inboard. Should those be at the gallery deck edge?
Also, the prewar guns are mounted to the ship, but the forward part folds? I also see the folding part is darker. I need to add the support under the foling part, but would like to get it right, if possible. I'm waterlining Sara, so want hull as complete as possible before fixing to the base. Going for a mid-30s look.

More questions.
Do all of the boat pockets have catwalks? I is hard to tell. I have the Squadron at Sea book for reference. My thinking is to get the hull right, boats done, railings installed and paint, then attach ship to base. Flight deck can be installed at that point. Any thoughts, or suggestions?

Yes, all of the boat pockets had catwalks. There were a lot of features in the boat pockets and no two pockets were identical. In the US Navy drawing below, the edge of the catwalks is drawn as a dashed line above the boats.

Here is our interpretation after a careful study of available plans and photos:
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-350-uss-lexington-cv-2-and-uss-saratoga-cv-3-boat-pockets-1928-1942

I recommend assembling and painting the boat pockets as subassemblies before installing them in the hull for better access to their features.

Hope this helps.

Regarding your question about the prewar guns and the forward part that folds, I'd like to be able to help with that but I'm not sure what you mean by the folding part. Are you talking about a part of the 8" turrets or the 5" guns' sponsons?

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Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby

Steve, thanks for the reply. I'm past that point, and thought of that when adding my details. This is my first 1/350 ship, and there is a lot to unpack, between those drawings, and Trumpys kit. I've reworked the pockets a few times, I'll settle for what I have at yhis point. The 5" gun galleries show the gun mounted to the hull deck, yet the outboard semi circle folds up, not sure why. I thought to stretch sprue for the 2 supports. The chain railings are another thing entirely. Hard to find good photos of this area. Also, semicircles seem different from inboard deck. Did they nonskid them, or just a trick of light?

Taking a break from PE railings. Started guns.
In looking at the island/ funnel, I'm wondering were catwalks nonskidded?(dark grey?) Island & funnel will almost be a seperate kit, prolly added last. But, I'm trying to advance construction and paint in sequence.
I'm guessing there is a narrow window with bipes and monoplanes onboard. Has this been covered?

Non-skid didn't really exist until early WWII.
Prior to that rubber and metal mats were used - I know of photos in some of my reference books but they're packed away at present and I haven't been able to find any photos online.

Airgroups were covered a bit here.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Well... pre-WWII there was the "mastic" (brown, textured stuff) topping that we've seen in the 1940 color Idaho photos, and which can be seen in some of the color overhead shots of the Wasp in '42.

- Sean F.

So, my catwalks, and possibly deck around the gun sponsons would be brown? I have a decent photo in my Sara book that makes the sponson deck look grey, but the outboard portion is definetly a darker color, perhaps the brown? I'm trying to get the color sequence straight.