The Ship Model Forum

Jon, good call on the yellow stripes. Thanks for posting the pictures.

Jon Wrote:

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Thanks for getting back so quickly. That is a very good site. I can only make out 2 dashed lines in that photo, though I would have thought that there should have been a centerline line as well. Thanks again.


Enterprise probably did have center line stripes. If you look at the pictures under Events "Battles & Engagements" in http://www.cv6.org/ you will see them. The centerline stripes run from the #1 (fwd) elevator back through the #2 (midship) elevator. The picture of the deck I posted before doesn't show them because they are just out of the frame forward.

Steve Ewing's book USS Enterprise (CV-6) The Most Decorated Ship of World War II has a shot of the forward flight deck at Pearl Harbor in April 42 (20mm's) that shows the center stripes. It starts just inside the fwd elevator. There is also a picture dated May 4, 1942 that shows the stripes ending just aft of the #2 elevator. Then there's an overhead shot of Enterprise at PH dated July 12, 1942 that shows the center stripes going from the #1 elevator back through the #2 elevator.

Classic Warships Pub."s Warship pictorial #9 "Yorktown Class Carriers" by Steve Wiper has a well weathered picture of Enterprise dated Nov. 10, 1942 that shows a centerline stripe also. This one runs from the #1 elevator back to the #3 elevator.


HTH

Gordon

I'm going to put on my other hat here...........

First, video captures............nice for entertainment, useless for judging color. Minimum 2 generations removed from the master film print at NARA *if* they made the floor reference tape from the master and not the reference film print to begin with (you have to check the preservation and provenance log to find that information). If the tapes were made from the reference film print you're looking at 5 generations from the original film. Sitting down viewing the reference print of film then immediately viewing the floor reference video tape for several dozen films two weeks ago, the video tapes are all much less vivid and color shifted from the film. The first image posted shows a greenish leading edge to the starboard wing (is it the video or is it tranmission shift? No way to tell unless you and I both drop a grand or two on equipment and calibrate to the same external color standard). Well actually *I* can tell because I watched the film and the image posted is color shifted just like the floor reference tape. The third image shows the correct yellow for deck stripes.......the yellow deckape shirts should be an almost exact match, they aren't. Was the tape made by parking a video camera in front of the flat bed film projector and was it a professional grade or consumer grade camera or was it done from the floor reference tape on the dubbing deck? Was any post processing done by the video distributor? If you can't answer all of those questions along with what color control methods were used, you can't base any color judgements soley on video captures.

Now a bit about 251N, it's linseed oil based and does indeed yellow a bit with exposure to air. It's light in color and like almost all light colored paints is more than happy to absorb tire grunge, oil, exhaust and fuel stains. It's semi-gloss and does in fact reflect different colors of light depending on angle of incidence and the predominant color of light. You can see it in photos where they're taken from different angles within a minute or two and you can see it in films as the ship moves or the plane shooting the film moves. In some color photos you can see where low angle sunlight makes it look yellowish in direct light but shadows cast by planes or crewman show its true color.

AA Military wrote:

" The third image shows the correct yellow for deck stripes.......

Now a bit about 251N, it's linseed oil based and does indeed yellow a bit with exposure to air. It's light in color and like almost all light colored paints is more than happy to absorb tire grunge, oil, exhaust and fuel stains. It's semi-gloss and does in fact reflect different colors of light depending on angle of incidence and the predominant color of light. You can see it in photos where they're taken from different angles within a minute or two and you can see it in films as the ship moves or the plane shooting the film moves. In some color photos you can see where low angle sunlight makes it look yellowish in direct light but shadows cast by planes or crewman show its true color."
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Then the yellow we see is from the sunlight reflecting off of the 251n stain and the true color is more represented by the the stripe under the right wing in the shadow of photo #3. So on sunny days we see yellow and on overcast days we will see a different color. The color also changes with the angle of the sunlight shining on the stain.

As Artie Johnson used to say "Very Interesting"

Can you tell us what the DVD will contain?

Thanks for the new info.

Gordon

Gordon, Thanks for in info. It does look like that center strip is only between the 1st and 3rd elivators.. Time to break out the deck stain and paint over some lines!
Those screen caps are from aircraft films 2 disk F4F Wildcat DVD. It's got some great color and B&W footage of the Wildcat flying of most of the Early War USN carriers. I think they have a DVD on the CV8&12 Hornet as well. THe Website, I think, is http://www.aircraftfilms.com

AA-Mil > Thanks for the explanation of the251N stain. Sounds like you really know your stuff. In the entire clip of that footage from the Enterprise does make it look yellow though the brightness does change. The Brightest yellow does appear to be close to sunset or sunrise. (Notice the reflection on the canopy of the F4F in img 1, While Img 3 looks more like noon and the stripe color is less intense. I don't think color footage is usless for judging color, maybe trying to match the exact color, granted, but it gives you a much better impression of what the ship looked like at that moment then B&W does.
I guess my point is that a modeller couldn't go too wrong modeling his deck stripes in a yellowish tint or even yellow (or grey for that matter ) and not be far off the mark..

regards, Jon

I have a B&W video clip from a DVD from which I have taken several screen captures, showing Enterprise at Pearl as Yorktown slides by on her way to her emergency drydocking following Coral Sea, crew in whites manning the rails. (Too bad Hornet couldn't get in the shot somewhere - it would be the only time all three sisters were in port together). Anyway, CV6 is considerably darker than CV5's lower Meas. 12 band of Sea Blue. Admittedly, CV5 was wearing that scheme for many months, while Enterprise has 2 month old paint. However, just judging tonal qualities of this comparative shot and also of several others taken of CV6 in port at the same timeframe, I would have to go with Navy Blue 5-N, not Sea Blue 5-S. She is just too dark to be 5-S. I have another B&W 8 x 10 actual photographic print (pre-digital age) of CV8 returning from the Tokyo raid with CV6 steaming in the background. CV6's overall color matches the tonal quality of CV8's Meas. 12 Mod. wavy 5-N Navy Blue lower hull.

A key point to remember is that 5-S and 5-N paint colors were not "stocked" items. They were mixed on the spot by the chiefs, in 55 gallon drums of white 5-U base paint and a specific number of single gallons of 5-TM blue-black tinting material. All that needed to be done to switch from 5- S to 5-N was to add a bit more of the very same tinting material (or less if mixing 5-O, 5-H or 5-L). Since the fleet had switched to 5-N long before it was announced in the official documents, it is more than just a little likely that her crew mixed 5N when they painted her up in early April before she left for the Tokyo Raid.

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Mike

I'm inclined to agree with Michael about CV-6 being in 5-N. If you go to the image library at CV6.org, click on "Dates" and then on "1942", one of the photos that pops up is one taken outside Pearl Harbor about April or early May of '42. She looks pretty dark in that photo (one of my personal favorite ENTERPRISE photos, by the way.)

More progress finally made on Enterprise. Flight deck is complete and Air Group (10) Ten is also finished. Now on to the island and hangar deck railings

very nice, clean build. Is that the tamiya kit?

Very clean work, nice model to come.


Jef

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Current 1/700 WL
HMS Repulse

you did the entire air group? wow. also very nice looking build on the ship.

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Vlad

Very nice! Keep the pictures coming!

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Hi guys, Thanks for your kind comments on my Enterprise.


Yes, it is Tamiya. It is a combination of both the Enterprise and Hornet kits.

I only did about half of the Air Group. It looks like there are a lot of planes on the deck and that's because the a/c are 1/700 and the ship is 1/719. The bigger planes take up more room on the deck. I have (10) ten planes for the hangar deck also. They didn't turn out as nice as the one's that will be on the flt. deck.

I like building carriers because you can hide mistakes. Bad looking a/c can go on the hangar deck and flight deck flaws can be hidden by putting an a/c or two over it. Then add some crew members around the problem.
The eyes of the people looking at your model will be attracted to the action on the deck and not to any flaws.

Happy modeling!

Gordon

So true

Another great looking carrier

John

Can anyone help me and confirm whether the Big "E" had the big number "6" on the forward and aft end of the flight deck during the Marianas campaign?

I also wanted to know where exactly in the hanger deck did she have her war records painted on? (port side or starboard?).

Hope someone can help.

cheers
bruce

Hi, Bruce. There was a "6" on the flight deck at Marianas. Go to http://www.cv6.org, click on "Image Library" and then "Dates". Choose 1944, and you'll find several photos which show the number on the forward end of the flight deck.

The scoreboard was painted on the starboard side of the hangar deck. I'll try to get a more definitive answer for you; you may want to try the message boards at cv6.org, as well.

Regards,
Rich Mathsen

Has anyone used the Toms ModelWorks hanger detail set Dave Gatt used on his Enterprise (CV-6)? If so where did you get it? I searched Toms site and Squadron but they didn't show it listed.

Thanks,

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David Sewell

Hull mounted to the case. Island and catwalks ready for pe railings.

Bow 1.1" gun is fron the Trumpeter CV-2 Lexington kit.

Quad 40 mm guns are made from the twin 20mm guns fron the Dragon CV-16 Lexington kit.

The 20mm guns will be from Tom's MW.

The mark 33 Directors are scratch built.

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Glad to see the results of all your research. I'm looking forward to the finished product.

Great work as usual Gordon.

John