Rigging with Fishing lines (Monofil)

[oierlings]

Hi,
I'm not very sucessful using hot spures, therefore I'm looking another method. Does anyone of you guys use fishing lines ? What brand of super glue do you use ? Can the line be tighted by temperature ?
Regards,
Eric

[DanCinSD]

Hi Eric,
I use Dai Riki brand line for my rigging (9x and 8x it is very thin and I got mine thru evil-bay) I use a pair of helping hands to hold the line and then move the ship in place under it and apply the cheap "Krazy Glue" super glue. Works fine and I have not had to use heat to tighten it since the helping hands hold the line taunt until the glue sets. Then I just cut to length with straight nail cutters.
Hope this helps

[Karsten]

Myself I like Uni Thread that is made for trying flies for fishing. You can get it in a wide variety of colors and gauges depending on the scale you are working with.

BigFly, 8/0, 6/0, 3/0 and Super Fine 20 den Caenis.

Works fine with most CA, White glue and Mucilage.

http://www.jsflyfishing.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi

Karsten

[David Griffith]

Dear Eric,

I've been trying to persuade people to use "Caenis", made by Uni-Thread for about a year now. There is nothing quite like it. 20 denier is equivalent to about 0.05mm diameter, roughly the same diameter as a human hair, and using this stuff much of your rigging will actually be in scale at 1/700. Coming on a reel, it is easy to handle, and it's also dirt cheap.

If you want something thinner, to give visual variety, it is possible to find something. I take braided nylon cord that is used for carrier bag handles by department stores. This can often be teased out to individual fibres and they can be found in different diameters, down so so fine that you really need good light to see that it exists.

For gluing, you can't do better than stationer's gum, also called mucilage in the US. This is the amber coloured stuff that they gave us at school for sticking paper, that came in the bottles with the squidgy rubber cap. You may have to make a special order for it at the stationer's shop, as it's not widely available now, everybody having gone over to glue sticks. This can be diluted with a drop of water to make it easy to apply with a fine brush. It dries in about a minute or so without forming any kind of hard lump, is quite strong enough for our uses, and being water soluble, mistakes are easy to rectify.

Try these things. You won't regret it.

Kind regards,

David Griffith

[les]

I use 2# leader on my builds (I work in 1/72nd scale). If you do the smaller scales, you might try wire. There is some very fine stuff out there.

[David Griffith]

Regarding wire, I've got some 0.035mm dia copper wire, but the nylon fibres, even the unbeleivably fine ones, are actually stronger and probably easier to use. You also have the problem of colouring the copper so that it looks like steel wire or whatever.

Stick with nylon or Caenis.

Regards,

David Griffith

[oierlings]

Hi,
I've bought .007 inch and .12 mm monofil cause uni-thread was not available. Is this right for 1/700 scale ?

[bocME262]

Dear Eric,

I've been trying to persuade people to use "Caenis", made by Uni-Thread for about a year now. There is nothing quite like it. 20 denier is equivalent to about 0.05mm diameter, roughly the same diameter as a human hair, and using this stuff much of your rigging will actually be in scale at 1/700. Coming on a reel, it is easy to handle, and it's also dirt cheap.

If you want something thinner, to give visual variety, it is possible to find something. I take braided nylon cord that is used for carrier bag handles by department stores. This can often be teased out to individual fibres and they can be found in different diameters, down so so fine that you really need good light to see that it exists.

For gluing, you can't do better than stationer's gum, also called mucilage in the US. This is the amber coloured stuff that they gave us at school for sticking paper, that came in the bottles with the squidgy rubber cap. You may have to make a special order for it at the stationer's shop, as it's not widely available now, everybody having gone over to glue sticks. This can be diluted with a drop of water to make it easy to apply with a fine brush. It dries in about a minute or so without forming any kind of hard lump, is quite strong enough for our uses, and being water soluble, mistakes are easy to rectify.

Try these things. You won't regret it.

Kind regards,

David Griffith

David,

What about 1/350 scale? Is there a Uni-Thread size that compares well to it?

[mike mccabe]

I tried the caenis stuff, I found it hard to attach and harder to cut once attached, even with a brand new scalpel when attached to yards it took more force to cut the thread than the yard would take, I ended up cutting with nail scissors. I still much prefer sprue for ease of attachment and removal of excess.

Mike

[David Griffith]

Dear Mike,

Try getting some spring scissors from the fly tying section of the fishing shop. I've been using a brand called "Stonefly". Very fine and precise, but it does depend a little on the angle at which the fibre passes between the blades, but that is the same with any kind of fibre.

Keep trying.

Regards,

David

[David Griffith]

Dear bocME262,

In 1/350 scale Caenis would be about in scale for aerials and running rigging, but too thin for mast stays, etc, especailly American ships where these lines appear from photos to have been made out of some type of rod, rather than steel rope.

I would probably choose to use the finest fishing line that I could find for lines such as these, 1lb breaking strain or something like that.

Regards,

David Griffith

[MartinJQuinn]

Stick with >snip< Caenis.

I used this for my Gneisenau build. Looks fantastic, but (at least for me) was a headache to attach (kept coming loose). Any tips on how you attach it to your beautiful models, David?

[David Griffith]

Dear Martin,

I think half the secret is finding a way of temporarily holding the thread in position while the glue is setting. Trying to hold the thread with your fingers and whistling while you wait isn't going to do it. I use "Blu-Tack". It may be that this is marketed under a different name in the US; if so, it is the grey putty-like adhesive that you use for hanging posters on walls.

The rigging is one of the last processes I carry out and it happens after the model is permanently fixed to its base. If, for example, I am attaching an aerial between the yards on the fore and main masts, I will put a small lump of Blu-Tack on the base in front of the bows and use this to secure the end of a thread. I then lead the thread over the foreyard, then over the mainyard and down to a similar lump of Blu-Tack on the base behind the stern, such that the run of thread that you want to end up with is under a very slight tension, just enough to pull kinks out of the thread, but not enough to distort the masts. You can now apply glue to the yards, and after a few minutes cut off the excess thread at both ends of the ship with fine scissors close up against the yards.

As I mentioned in a post earlier in this thread, the glue that I have had most success with is stationer's gum (mucilage in the US), taking a drop, diluting it with a touch of water so that it goes on easily with a brush and just painting it over the attachment point. It doesn't sound as though it will work, but I find it is quite strong enough. This stuff is hard to find in the stationer's shops nowadays, as everyone has gone over to using glue sticks, but I have managed to get it in this country on special order, though I did have to buy an industrial sized litre bottle of the stuff. For a line that is critical, I might tend to use thin superglue, for example the joints between the cage aerials and yards on my HMS Cumberland (see gallery), where a fair degree of tension built up. In this case the use of Blu-Tack to anchor the threads is even more useful as superglue just won't hold if there is any kind of movement in the joint as the glue is being applied.

You may want to give thought to the order in which you do the various parts of the rigging. I would tend to put the signal halliards on fairly early in the process as they can be the fiddliest part and other bits of rigging will get in my way. A topmast backstay may be one of the later things to put on as it would run "outside" most of the other lines.

Other pieces of advice that I have for you are to ensure that you have lots of light, preferably from multiple directions to prevent too many shadows, have a sheet of white paper to work on and also use as a background as the threads will be more visible. Also have a loop of fine wire. You can put the working end of the thread through this and use it as a sort of needle. It makes it much easier if you are trying to get a thread to pass between railings and suchlike.

I hope this is all of use to you.

Kind regards,

David Griffith

[mike mccabe]

I can't see the advantage to using the fishing line at all, it's just much harder to attach and cut, sprue can be stretched just as thinly, and personally I find it easier to attach and remove waste. Sorry but I'll be sticking to the sprue method, works for me personally.

Mike

[MartinJQuinn]

Other pieces of advice that I have for you are to ensure that you have lots of light, preferably from multiple directions to prevent too many shadows, have a sheet of white paper to work on and also use as a background as the threads will be more visible. Also have a loop of fine wire. You can put the working end of the thread through this and use it as a sort of needle. It makes it much easier if you are trying to get a thread to pass between railings and suchlike.

It was very helpful - thanks David. I did notice that I needed a white backdrop to work with this medium...part of the problem may have been I did some of the rigging at work in my office, where the lighting wasn't good enough for this type of thing.

I can't see the advantage to using the fishing line at all, it's just much harder to attach and cut, sprue can be stretched just as thinly, and personally I find it easier to attach and remove waste. Sorry but I'll be sticking to the sprue method, works for me personally.

Mike

Can't say I blame you...but as I'm unable to stretch sprue consistently, I'll have to stick with line!

[Dave Hill]

I've been trying to persuade people to use "Caenis", made by Uni-Thread for about a year now.

David Griffith

Well, David I'm convinced!!!...I purchased a few rolls Uni-Caenis from J. Stockard Fly fishing and I like it!...I made two test "masts & yardarms" out of .050" styrene rod and found it attaches well with the gel-type CA I use...I can also get the thread taught with not much tension at all.

I've been useing "hair" from a Halloween mask for my rigging...but it looks like the mask goes back in the attic!

I tried the caenis stuff, I found it hard to attach and harder to cut once attached, even with a brand new scalpel when attached to yards it took more force to cut the thread than the yard would take, I ended up cutting with nail scissors. I still much prefer sprue for ease of attachment and removal of excess.

Mike

Mike,

Try useing nail clippers!...I found if they are new, they will cut the Caenis with no problem!...I keep a "new" pair of clippers just for trimming rigging thread.


Dave

[Dave Hill]

Got my camera back so I thought I'd post some pics of my test rig of the Caenis thread.

Dave

[winstonshu]

thanks much for the tips in this thread. i've been trying to use fine wire that i harvested from a power cord that crapped out... and doing so with no success (which is why i've become discouraged with my nimitz model and put it aside). maybe i'll give it a shot again with the fly fishin' thread.

[SkyKing]

At David Griffith's suggestion I ordered some Caenis thread, and although I haven't tried it yet, I think it's going to be perfect for 1/700 scale ships. It's the finest thread of any kind I have ever seen!

I ordered mine from J. S. Stockard (http://www.jsflyfishing.com) on a Tuesday and it arrived in the following Thursday's mail! Excellent service. I highly recommend them.

Thanks to David for this excellent idea.

[smithec]

Just received my order for this Caenis line. Very cheap from the US supplier recommended on this forum - $6.35 for one reel clear and one real black, including mailing to UK! Haven't tried it yet but looks good. Compared it with what I've used before which is CARPTEK 0.1mm, 2ib 5oz/1.07kg breaking strain, and 100m of it. Got it from a local tackle shop. Wasn't cheap - think it might have been about �7. Can't visually detect a lot of difference between it and Caenis. I will let you know how I get on with Caenis.