The Ship Model Forum

The '42 San Fran is close to the Astoria config. The major difference is the turrets. Astoria had curved-faced turrets with an older model of the 8" gun, which had a larger external diameter making the guns look closer together. Other than that, there were some minor differenced at the back of the hangar roof, where the San Fran's deck overhung the back end of the hangar, and Astoria's didn't. (Except for the 20MM tubs aft of the cranes.) Quincy and Vincennes had MAJOR differences from San Fran and it would require major surgery to convert a San Fran kit into one of them. As Tracy indicated, those differences have been described earlier in this thread.

Thank you guys, I really appreciate it.
Astoria it is!

If you use the 1942-San Francisco, the conversion into USS Astoria should be easy. The major difference is the shape of the turret front. In the 1/700 kit both turret models are contained, but the 1/350 kit appears to contain only the version of the last four ships.

The conversion into USS Quincy and USS Vincennes is more difficult. The forward 8 in turret was moved more towards the bridge. The superstructure around the barbette of second turret was reduced and the hight of the barbette increased. The bridge was simplified and the shape of the searchlight tower was different. There are additionally differences between Quincy and Vincennes, e.g. the shape of the splinter shielding around the 5 in, the missing platform for the tactical range finder in Vincennes (instead there was a open bridge), the missing 1,1 in directors in Vincennes, the new Mk 34 directors in Vincennes instead of the Mk 31 in Quincy...

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Can anyone tell me how to backdate the Trumpeter San Fran kit '42 in 1/350 scale so she depicts a late '30s version to model next to a Saratoga?

What year precisely? I mainly have photos of her "as commissioned" in 1934 but I see some differences between that and 1935 even on Navsource. For the 1934 configuration:

The easy-ish stuff:
* remove the splinter shields around the 5" guns and change the shapes of the overhangs to more of an even oval
* Delete the rear 1.1" mounts

The not-so easy-ish stuff:
* Scratch-build a new signal bridge that has not been enclosed.
* Scratch-build a new Battle Lookout Level (or modify the existing one) without the 1.1" guns

By 1935 her signal bridge had been enclosed.

There may be more.

Sources:
Navsource CA-38 Page
CA-38 1942 Damage Report
NARA San Francisco photos I have, most of which have been turned over to Navsource.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I have found this interesting information on the navweaps.com site:

Minneapolis (CA-36) was regunned with Mark 15 in 1944

Is it true that CA-36 was rearmed with the lighter guns in the and of WW2 ?

I am not sure what Mark she re-gunned with, but it definitely was not a lighter gun. If anything, the barrels after the '45 refit look heavier than the originals, not lighter. The gun config doesn't match either the gun carried by the Boston or the one carried by the San Fran.

Mk 15 was certainly the lighter model. In fact it was improved Mark 12 (carried by San Francisco for exemple). If Minneapolis had been regunned with Mk 15 in 1944, she would have had the same barells as Boston. I also think that CA-36 still had the older, heavier design in the end of war. So, in my opinion information from Navweaps is erroneous.

The Trumpeter web site has photos of the kit and contents including the kit box and the directions. Is the configuration shown of the main deck house at "B" turret correct? I thought only the Quincy and Vincennes were so configured.

I said on one of the sites that the Tuscaloosa kit looked more like Quincy than Tuscaloosa. Unfortunately, none of the features unique to Tuscaloosa appears to be present on this kit. You are correct about the structure that should (but does not on this kit) surround the barbette for Turret II. The enclosed comm-bridge deck does not appear to even be depicted (the kit comm-bridge deck is open), let alone depicted correctly. The 5" guns on the main deck are not arranged correctly - on Tuscaloosa, the aftermost 5" on each side was the one that was inset, not the middle one. The 5" splinter screens on the main deck are molded as one continuous shield with no dividers between guns. Only Quincy had that arrangement. All others had individual shields for each gun in '42. Of the 4 survivors, three had the shields reconfigured, making the outer surface continuous with only one divider between each set of guns. Tuscaloosa kept the original '42 arrangement to the end. One positive thing, though. Since Tuscaloosa, Quincy, and Vincennes all refitted in the Atlantic in '42, all three had roughly the same arrangement of the 20MM guns.

If you want to make this kit into Quincy, it still has problems. First, Turret I should be 8 scale feet further aft. It does not appear to be so on this kit. (That was the reason the structure surrounding the front of Turret II's barbette was removed.) The kit turret position is correct for Tuscaloosa, but not for Quincy or Vincennes. Also, on Quincy and Vincennes, the capstans for the anchors were moved forward, out from under the barrels of Turret I, shortening the amount of chain showing on the deck. I haven't seen any kit, even the resin ones, get that right. Again, the capstan position is correct for Tuscaloosa, but it doesn't fit with the other features (Quincy features) this kit has.

In short, Trumpy goofed - big time.

So Dick:

Are you saying that you can't make an accurate version of either Tuscaloosa, Vincennes, or Quincy out of the Tuscaloosa kit?

Please clarify.

Thanks!

Mike

The Trumpy Tuscaloosa kit will not, out of the box, build into an accurate anything. If the Quincy kit is the same mold, it will have some accuracy issues also. So far, all of the New Orleans class kits I have dry-fitted have some accuracy issues requiring correction, although some are relatively minor. That is why I haven't yet finished one myself.

The '42 San Francisco kit is closer to a Tuscaloosa than this kit appears to be. Even then, the 5" battery will need to be rearranged, the 1/2 deck removed from the comm-bridge area (without lowering the structures above it) and the glassed in area redone. Additionally, Tuscaloosa had the narrower (fore and aft) searchlight tower, and also the 20MM arrangement, of the Quincy and Vincennes.

Hello All,
New to the site. I'm In the planning stages of the USS Astoria CA-34, in 1/72 scale cira 1942. I have plans for the San Fran, and vincennes, hopefully I can use the two to get the Astoria right. I have warship pictorial New Orleans class, the trumpeter 1/700 scale Astoria to aid in construction. and on the way is the squadron US heavy cruisers in action pt 1. and a small set of plans of the astoria I found on ebay. I have learned in the past its a good idea to have reference's for guilds
so, has anyone else built a large scale NO class? how is the trumpy 1/700 astoria as far as a reference model goes?
thanks
Jason

Hey

I've got a question - could anyone help me where the San Francisco had her sky lookout and Mk.51 director positions in oct 44? Cant see them in my few photos, and have no other sources ;(

Also, which radars are right for the october 44 post-refit condition? From the photos I think about the SK on the foremast, and a pair of MK 3 fire control ones. Is that all?

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Distributor of Very Fire, Snowman, Milania Master Korabel, Falkonet, Microdisign in EU
1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

I hope the San Fran plans are for 1942. After the early '42 refits, the major difference between her and the Astoria was the turrets. San Fran had the flat-faced turrets with the lighter, slimmer gun barrels. Astoria had the curved-faced turrets with the same guns as the earlier Portland's. Bridge, AA, and radar fits were pretty similar. The remaining significant difference was at the back of the hanger roof. San Fran's hangar roof extended slightly beyond the back of the hangar. Astoria's hangar roof only went beyond the hangar sides for the 20MM gun tubs. Vincennes' plans should be of little use.

Welcome aboard!
Gary Kingzett did a 1/192 USS San Francisco.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Well looking at the plans i have for the SanFran i see they are 1944, with the mods made. so.... can anyone direct me to large scale plans that i can use for the Astoria? im working in 1/72 but i have a scale converter that i can blow up any normal model plans to 1/72, thanks
jason

Jason, the Profile Morskie No 86, The American Cruiser USS ASTORIA (CA 34), includes a set of 1/200 plans. The Trumpeter 1/700 ASTORIA would not be very useful, but the Trumpeter 1/350 USS SAN FRANCISCO might be, as it is a much better kit. There is a great hi resolution picture of ASTORIA taken the day before its loss. Have you seen it? I would think that the 3 Classic Warship books on New Orleans class cruisers would be helpful for your project. Rich

If you go back to page 4 of this thread I had posted a link (still active) with scans of the builders drawings for USS Tuscaloosa. These are very detailed general arrangements used by foreman at the shipyard. They are perhaps your most credible source. You will need to update the ship of course, but many things did not change. Hope that they are of help.

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Charles Landrum
USNA 1983
Norfolk, Virginia

You will need to be very careful using Tuscaloosa plans. The lower bridge levels were different, the searchlight tower was different, the 5" gun arrangement was different, and the turrets differed (Tuscaloosa carried the flat-faced turrets, like San Fran). Also, Tuscaloosa received her '42 AA upgrade on the Atlantic coast, so her 20MM arrangement matched that of Quincy and Vincennes, not the other 4 which refitted on the Pacific side of the US.