The Ship Model Forum

well I ordered a set of 1/144 scale plans from loyalhanna, all i have to do is take them to kinko's and enlarge them 200%
might not be the best way, but it will have to work.
thanks guys for all the help. im sure I will be asking for more
jason

Any one know where I can buy this book in the U.S.A.?
thanks
jason

Ask Bill at Pacific Front Hobbies.

cheers

Gilbert

Clearly as has been noted, the Trumpeter kit is not for the Tuscaloosa but appears to be the basic kit for the Quincy and Vincennes. There are two new sprues included (K and L) in addition to the usual A, B and C sprues.The superstructure and bridge parts appear to be for both ships as there are optional parts both with and without the rangefinder platform rounded extension. There are also optional parts for the hanger boat deck (with both 2 or 4 20mm) and aft director platform structure. Also the 5" mounts on the main (forecastle) deck have continuous shielding without the inboard extensions between them and the structure at the B barbette appears correct. My impression is that the instructions for the Quincy will be Identical to the Tuscaloosa kit instructions as they depict the installed range finder and 4 - 20mm on the hanger boat deck. My plan is to do sub assemblies then check if my conclusion on the kit being closest to the Quincy is correct when that kit is released. Certainly I will purchase a Vincennes kit when she is released.

Given the debacle of Trumpeter's attempt to make a 1/700 TUSCALOOSA, I am looking at modifying the SAN FRANCISCO in order to portray TUSCALOOSA in the summer of 1942 while she was attached to the British Home Fleet. In general, this seem to be doable inasmuch as TUSCALOOSA and SAN FRANCISCO were similar. I recognize that there are differences on the bridge structure, 5" shields and 5" arrangement, 20mm arrangements, searchlight tower design, etc. However, I am not completely clear on her rangefinder platform and I have not been able to find clear photos of this area.

Did TUSCALOOSA still have the "bathtub" platform found on her sisters during the pre-war period and on QUINCY and VINCENNES in early 1942? Was it teh same shape? If not, did she have an arrangement similar to ASTORIA in July 1942? Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks.

The early-war modifications to the class depended on which side of the US the work was performed. The 3 of the 4 Pacific units were modified the same way, with 4 20MM on the hangar roof, 4 around the after fire-control tower, 2 forward of the bridge and aft of turret II, and 2 beside the rangefinder above the bridge. It was this last pair of guns that changed the shape of the "birdbath". New Orleans, herself, differed in two things. First, the rangefinder was removed and only the 20MM were fitted in that location. Second, two of the 20MM were mounted in small half-tubs projecting from her open com-bridge level (not possible on the other 3) instead of being mounted on the platform around the after fire-controls. The "birdbath" change was a Pacific only alteration early in the war.

The 3 in the Atlantic all had the same 20MM arrangement. 4 were placed on the hangar roof, 2 on the after control platform, 2 forward of the bridge aft of turret II, and 4 on a new gallery around the front of the bridge. It was therefore unnecessary to change anything related to the rangefinder and its "birdbath" at that stage. Quincy kept the unaltered birdbath until lost, and Tuscaloosa kept hers into 1943. Vinnie, however, had her rangefinder removed and replaced with a rudimentary open bridge.

Tuscaloosa, other than radar and the 1.1" guns with their directors, had little changed from her pre-war config from the pilothouse up until late 1943 to early 1944.

DickJ, thanks very much. You are a tremendously valuable resource on the NEW ORLEANS class cruisers.

A question for DickJ. The TrumpeterTuscaloosa kit includes a hanger roof option with only 2 - 20mm. I am guessing this part will be called out for either the Quincy or Vincennes when Trumpeter releases those kits. Was this representative of either ship or is it just an incorrect "asumption" on their part.

The part is most likely for Vincennes since Quincy clearly had 4 guns on the hangar roof. Most of the available photos of CA-44 show the forward part of the ship very well, but the after end is not well covered. I recently received some photo scans from a friend who got them from NARA, including a couple of the Vinnie. It appears from them that she may not have had the 20MM forward of the cranes like her sisters did. If so, it is possible that she had 4 rather than 2 20MM on the after control platform to make up for it, but clear photos of the after controls are hard to come by. If this in fact is the case, this is another area in which Vinnie was unique. That is probably the way Trumpy is depicting the ship. I haven't been able to ID any other locations for 20MM and 12 was the standard allocation for these guns early in the war.

Other features unique to Vincennes include the bridge windows, which were narrowed, top to bottom, and the bridge wings which were cut back to allow the 5" guns to have greater arcs of fire forward. Also, on either side of the pilothouse, there were projecting "half-tubs" in the splinter screen. She had a rudimentary open bridge in place of her rangefinder and prior to her loss, it appears that some limited wind baffles had been added to it.

Something else made Vinnie unique within her class - the main battery directors. She was the last to complete, and was a contemporary of the early Brooklyn class. The directors she carried appear to have more in common with the originally mounted directors for the Brooklyn's than they did with the MK-31's carried by the other 6 New Orleans class ships. The early MK-34's carried by the Brooklyn's lacked the built-in rangefinder of later MK-34 models and had small protrusions for spotting glasses where the rangefinder was eventually mounted. The Brooklyn's all got the rangefinders later, but Vinnie did not.

The optional parts in the Tuscaloosa kit for the after contol station both have only 2 - 20mm positions. They are both on sprue K so I'm guessing the Vincennes kit instructions will show only 10 - 20mm but we just have to wait and see. I'm still guessing that the Tuscaloosa kit has all the parts for both the Quincy and Vincennes. Interesting that there is a new book coming out on the class (from Shipcraft as I recall).

It would be nice if the Shipcraft book found some new photos to help out. However, since this series usually focuses on modeling, often, less time is spent on researching the new (to publication) and unique historical photos. However, it pays to keep an open mind and go where the evidence leads. That is the only way we will correct our misconceptions of the past. If we are doing it right, what we "know" is always a "work-in-progress". I will probably buy the Shipcraft book when it comes out.

Checking the Trumpeter-China web site, their CAD appears to show the last two 20MM located on the fantail, just forward of the 1.1's. This is incorrect, according to the NARA scans. No 20MM were located there, nor were directors for the 1.1's. The scans seem to show the last pair located on the after control platform, but this is still not totally clear.

If this is correct, Vinnie's 12 20MM locations would be 2 on the O-1 level between turret II and the forward 5" guns, 4 on the gallery in front of the bridge (1/2 level lower than the equivalent platform on Quincy and Tuscaloosa), 2 on the hangar roof just aft of the cranes, and 4 on the platform around the after controls. Vinnie was unique!

Dick thanks for the clues on the 20mm locations for the Vincennes. I went on the Trumpeter site and looked at both the Quincy kit components photos and the CAD drawings for the Vincennes and compared them to the Tuscaloosa kit. The Quincy kit contents are identical to the Tuscaloosa. The same sprues are included for both. Comparing the CAD drawings for the Vincennes to the extra parts on the sprues there appears to be a match for the director platform modification and the 2 - 20's on the hanger roof. The stern 20's on the CAD drawings are shown farther forward than the location for the 1.1" directors but the Tuscaloosa kit does not include gun tubs large enough for 20mm guns. No matter though as the pictures in Steve Wiper's book (#7) clearly confirm these two were not fitted nor were the 1.1" directors as of July '42.The two aft control platforms included in the Tuscaloosa kit can only hold 2 20's so if 4 were actually fitted then replacing this platform would be needed. Maybe the new Shipcraft book will help sort this out.

Is the Trumpeter Minnie fitted as she was when she wore the false destroyer scheme? Otherwise I'll probably buy the Combrig kit. Considering that I have become pretty broke, the trumpy kit is preferred. (I have a spare WEM PE set)

Chris

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a constantly shifting fleet of half-starts and near finishes.

The plastic Trumpy Minneapolis is the '42 rig. The DD camo was late '43 into '44. The Trumpy San Fran '44 kit should be very close to the Minnie '44 config with a few bridge corrections (some correction is necessary anyway), the correct 20MM config, and use of the curved faced turrets. The resin Combrig kit is the '43-'44 rig.

Either is possible for the config you want. Resin or plastic is your choice.

Hmmm, well, I have the San Fran '44 in both 1/700 and 1/350, so I might just convert...(That DD camo would look neat in 1/350 I think.) Are we talking serious surgery, or just a few snips here an there? I'm not much of a scratch-builder.

Chris

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a constantly shifting fleet of half-starts and near finishes.

It depends on how picky you are. The 1/700 San Fran bridge is too narrow. Many people wouldn't know that. As for the difference between San Fran and Minnie, the San Fran bridge structure was more filled out at the back. San Fran's mast was enclosed by the back of the bridge while the mast on Minneapolis was clear of the back of the pilothouse level. (The Minnie's pilothouse level was shorter fore-and-aft rather than the mast being in a different location.) Again, most people wouldn't know the difference. Check Navsource for photos. Both had the same arrangement of 40MM on the hanger roofs (the 40MM arrangements on the other two ships were slightly different), and the 40MM/20MM gallery around the bridges and aft of the forward 5" was the same on both (again, the other two ships differed in this area, as well).

All:

Apparently the Trumpeter 1/700 USS Quincy has been released. Has anyone seen this kit yet, and if so, does it appear to be an accurate rendition of USS Quincy? If not, what modifications would need to be made to accurize the kit?

Thanks!

Michael E.

If it is a copy of the Tuscaloosa kit (it appears to be from the same molds) then the bridge needs major work. Trumpy has no idea about the signal bridge being 1 1/2 levels in height. Not knowing that throws off all of their bulkhead heights and relative positions of the pilothouse deck and 20MM gallery.

I just got Warship Pictorial with USS Minneapolis. I love her camo My question is ff decks were patterned or not. From the centerfold it seems that different parts of the main deck and superstructures decks were painted 20-B or 5-O. Is it true or it is print problem and all decks were painted 20-B? It would be completely untypical deck pattern for USN, but since her Ms 8 camo was unique... Why not? I have noticed also that backs of the front 8" turrets are not shaded with 5-O at this camo schematic - it is clearly visible on the photos.

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