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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:44 am 
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Posts: 19
Fine you are back on scene with the old "C".
Beautyfull work!
I'm quite glad to hear you built a lot of new molds and even started, let me say: private-etchting. Good looking first results!
:cool_2:
Schmidt


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:34 am 
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Location: Dover Kent UK
hi
you can get a set of plans from the save the cerberus web site
cheaper than grenwhich
bill

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:14 am 
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The next big parts to do were the anchors including all the parts concerning them and the handpumps. The latter have photo-etched wheels (the layout of them can be seen above). The handles were made of 0,5 mm brass rod with rests made from 0,8 mm brass rod with a top and bottom of sheet styrene. These were punched out with a hole punch, drilled (as they were still in the hole punch) open (for the handle) and glued to the brass sponsors. Behind the first rest (the one directly behind the wheel) there was another pin (made also of 0,8 mm brass rod). This was the actual pump. The rotation of the wheel was transmitted to it by a bevel gear represented bei two punched out disks of sheet styrene.

Image
Pumps and handles on the afterdeck (the compass stand with steps only from one side is wrong and by now replaced)

Before I could start the work with the anchors I first had to solve the question wether there were admirality or Martin’s anchors on the Cerberus. The original specifications from 1867 said only: „To be supplied with 3 60-cwt bowers, 1 18-cwt stream, 1 8-cu't kedge, and 14-cwt kedge. The whole to be tested as usual in Her Majesty's Service.“ but gave no hint what sort of anchors were supplied. Photographs show anchors of the admirality type as well as Martin’s. But as the Royal Navy in 1867 was still testing the Martin’s anchor versus the admirality anchor I think the Cerberus was initially equipped with admirality anchors and the Martin’s were mounted later (but definitely before the installation of the single fighting mast; in this aspect the Webb plan is wrong as it shows the single mast and a full set of admirality anchors.

As my Cerberus is of the early to middle 70s I chose three admirality anchors on theforedeck and one on the afterdeck. These are bought ones from Krick that got a little reworking on them. The anchors were stowed on tumblers from 0,8 mm brass rod with hinges from photo etched parts and secured with a chain to a bolt in the deck. The caps fore the chainholes were turned from a resin rod, drilled open and than sawn lengthwise. Unfortunately I had neither a plan nor good photographs of the slip stopper but I had a plan of these from the Duilio that was build only a few years later. As they matched the somewhat blurry photographs I took thiss plan and made them from sheet styrene with photo etched parts for the stirrups and the levers.

Image
Foredeck with stowed anchors and anchor davits

The davits for the anchors were made from 0,8 mm brass rod . The hinges on the top were turned from 1 mm brass rod with a small etched hook soldered to it. The davits are secured by a small chain.

To be continued ...


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:21 pm 
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The "chain" railings look very effective (as do the other details you've added)! I've tried this technique myself, on my R/C USCG cutter, but to represent (in a larger scale) steel cable rather than chains.

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Meanwhile I finished the davits and the lifeboats. The lifeboats got a cross from little chains fore and after. At the joint of this chain-cross sits a block. The blocks were made of photo etched parts and a punched out roller of sheet styrene. The davits themselves got at the tip also a block (also a photo etched but with two rollers) and a sheave. A 0,25 mm tackle-thread joined the two blocks and runs over the sheave to the cleat at the bottom of the davit, where it was glued on. This mend was decorated by little slings of rope.

Image
Full rigged davit with life boat cutter

As I mentioned before I first wanted to add the "slipping-rods" that can be seen on one photograph taken while still in England. But as these rods couldn't be found on any of the ship after the arrival in Victoria, I decided to leave the davits without them.

Also I already finished the compass-stand from brass rod and sheet styrene with a brass etched stairway but made the mistake to build it with only one stairway. This occured because of this painting. Unfortunately one sailor screens the port stairway, but the stand had definitly two stairways.

Image

As I fixed this mistake I added also the device for compass adjustment. This is generally just three pieces of brass tube with a photo etched lever and a base of sheet styrene.

Image
Compass stand

The mother-compass will be added soon. A comrade of mine offered me to turn it on his lathe, so now only the masts with their rigging and the rails of the main deck are left before the Cerberus is finished.

To be continued ...


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Location: Liverpool
Hi Egberth a Superb build. I very much like your PE tank. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Dave Wooley


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:36 pm 
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Well, the end is near (which is not ment theological). As I mentioned before, the skylights were just dummies. I originally planned to have clear panes, so I looked for a casting resin that stays clear and get a hard finish. My first trials with Hobbytime XOR resin failed. It stayed sticky even after a long time of curing (as it was on a polyester base). Finally I found what I looked for in West System Epoxy 195 Resin with West System 205 Fast Hardener. It produces a hard and not sticky surface, stays clear (well maybe a very slight greenish touch) and cures out quite fast (so you haven’t have to wait for days just to get one skylight). The skylights were cast, than the bases were primed in light grey (that would be the inner painting of the skylights) than black. The top with the panes were kept free from paint. Just the frames got painted with Model Master Burnt Metal (Metallizer) followed by a little bit polishing. The panes themself got only a coating from clear gloss paint. This looks very good. Due to the light inner painting the skylights nearly got something like a gleaming in them.

Image
Clear skylight

The rails on the main deck of the original Cerberus had no chains in them but massive grab rails. On the model the rails were made from photo etched parts by M.Z. Modellbau with a ß,3 mm steel wire as grab rails. The fore and aft jackstaffs were turned on a drilling machine.

Before I could finish the masts I had to do some research on their form. Photographs of the Cerberus just after completion show her with short masts. As my model shows the ship in the mid 70s studied the photographs of the ship in dry dock and found out, that she must have got longer masts and short yards on them. A painting suggests that the extension was achieved by adding a thin topmast. These were also turned on a drilling machine and fixed to the masts by a thin brass band, The rings with the eyes for the rigging were photo etched parts. For the rigging itself I used the really good and quite cheap polyester rigging by Andreas Gondesen (http://home.foni.net/~agondesen/tauwerk.htm). This is quite easy to work with if you use a lighter as a cutting device.

Image
The ship so far

Now the only things left to do are the supporting-bands for the boat’s davits, the blocks and tackles of the anchor davits and the nameplate. BTW: Does anybody know where the nameplate on the Cerberus were and how they looked like (or at least how they looked like and where they were usually on british ships of the 1870s)? I know that in the 1880s the Cerberus got her name painted in big captals on the ship’s stern but pictures from the 70s don’t show anything like that there.

To be continued ...


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:16 am 
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Posts: 19
Looks really great. :thumbs_up_1:
Where did you buy the clear resin?
Schmidt


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:59 am 
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@ schmidt: It's from the "Bauhaus" DIY-market in Wuppertal, but it should be availiable everywhere they sell stuff for repairing boats.

Cheers

Dirk


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:38 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:52 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Norfolk, UK
Dirk,

Ref your request on where the name should be, this is the only picture I can find of a similar vessel.

Image

As you can see, the name is in the same position as was used on Cerberus after the flying deck was shortened. No pictures appear to exist of Cerberus with a name anywhere before the installation of the military mast.

Rick

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:11 am 
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Location: Dover Kent UK
hi
the cerberus name is on the stern and top deck forward

Attachment:
1902_crop.jpg
1902_crop.jpg [ 41.08 KiB | Viewed 2640 times ]


Attachment:
cerbdok2.jpg
cerbdok2.jpg [ 16.35 KiB | Viewed 3465 times ]



hope this helps
bill

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:40 am 
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Hi Rick,

thanks for your reply. Then it seems that there will be no name plate on my Cerberus. BTW: I fixed the "wheel-problem" yesterday. She now has four wheels to close the watertight doors. Report and pictures will follow soon.

@ Bill Addley: The name on the stern and the back (the picture shows the Cerberus from the back - unfortunately pictures of her from the front are very rare - as you can recognize by the two skylights; but that fault has happend two me also more than one time. The ship is just quite "palindromatic") of the hurricane deck don't seem to be there before the addition of the fighting mast:

Image

But nevertheless thanks.

Dirk


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Location: Dover Kent UK
hi
heres an ealy stern no name on it
Attachment:
cerbdock.jpg
cerbdock.jpg [ 9.53 KiB | Viewed 2645 times ]

perhaps the save the cerberus group could help
bill

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:27 am 
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Finally finished.

As I mentioned before there were only minor things left to do. The blocks and tackles were the same as on the boat’s davits. I photo etched the frames, mended them to the hooks and eyes and glued a little roll from 1 mm ABS in them. The „rope“ was drawn through rings on the deck and belayed on the small bollards.

Image

The supporting bands for the lifeboats were made from thin cigarette paper I spraypainted white. The bands get little buckles on their ends with a hook on them to clasp in rings glued to the davits upper ends.

Image

Meanwhile Rick Freyer called my attention on an article on http://www.cerberus.com.au/ wth these mysterious wheels as topic:

Image

We talked about them before and couldn’t find any explenation for them, now they were described as wheels to close the watertight doors in case of leaking. These were later in the 80s moved to the inside of the ship. This lead me to the conclusion that these wheels

Image

were also for closing these doors as there were also some of them on the main deck. This would also solve the riddle of the moving pumps. On http://www.cerberus.com.au it is said that the wheels under the ladderways were the original pump wheels that later moved before the toilets. I really doubted that from the start because no one could efficiently handle a pump wheel under a ladder way where there is hardly room for one person. Also there was no written evidence that the pumps where moved in the later years. So the solution is: Thepumps never moved, they were just removeable. There is no photograph of both sort of wheels because on the early pictures the ship is in dock so there was no need to build up the pumps while the pictures showing them where taken at a time when the closing wheels moved to the inside of the ship (@ Bill Addley: That’s one of the points why I doubt that a question to people working at the cerberus webside would help to solve the nameplate-problem. They do a really great work to save the world’s last existing turret-ship and collecting all sorts of pictures, articles and documents but their technical guesses seem to be questionable at least. On the other hand their forum has been taken down so there is also no mor place to discuss questions.)

As my model depicts the Cerberus in her early years I etched the pump wheels sticked them on little brass spindles and glued them in place.

Image

Last thing to put in place was the flag. I printed them out on thin papers (front and backside) and glued them together. But I must say I am not quite satisfied with it. To begin with the flag is just wrong because it is the modern flag of Victoria. The ship in the 1870s would have flown a flag without a crown above the stars. Secondly the both sides just don’t stick nicely together as the glue unsolders again and again. But next week we get a new colour laser printer in office that can print double sided. Maybe I give it a try.

Image

So after seven months of working my HMVS Cerberus is finally finished and I can concentrate on the Masséna. I still think it is a nice ship and an important step in shipbuilding. After all she is the first real warship planned and built to work without sails (save the „delivery-sails“ that were not part of the original plan) and the first with the configuration that was later the standard for the Pre-Dreadnaughts of all nations (not the famed HMS Devastation). As a model I think it is quite a good project for the first steps in scratchbuilding as it has a very simple hull, a manageable superstructure and not to much but nice details. Plus the easy reserch (because there is plenty of material on the Cerberus webside) it makes a nice start for advanced beginners and a funny „in-between-model“ for the experienced modeller who is not so fancy starting a new big project.

Some impressions of the finished ship:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Cheers

Dirk


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:14 pm 
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Absolutely beautiful, really excellent work! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:28 am 
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Great work! :thumbs_up_1: You've built a very impressive model of this historic ship. Having scratchbuilt a model of Cerberus myself I can really appreciate all the attention to detail you've put into your model - I can see many things I missed or simplified, either due to lack of references or skill.
Referring to one of your previous work-in-progress posts, casting the skylights in clear resin is a great idea! I may try this in future. I gave up with these on my model due to the difficulty of building the skylights from clear sheet, and modelled them with the flat metal covers (fitted when the guns were fired) in place.

It's interesting you mention how this ship is a good subject for a first scratchbuild - the reasons you give are more or less why I built it as my first 1/96 scratchbuild! (the availability of the Paper Shipwright card model was another reason)

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:27 am 
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Very sharp looking end result!

I have reread and res-studied your work--and it certainly shows dedication to the subject!
How is Massena coming along?- another worthy subject--and one I have a lot interest in!

Regards and... Tschuess!

Jim Baumann

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Very well done.

-Devin

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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:00 pm 
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Hi Egberth, i was just admiring your work on the Cerberus, wat a fantastic model , congratulations on a job well done .
I was wondering if you could answer a q for me ,? on your post dated the 29th feb 09,
on the ninth picture of Cerberus , there is another model [yours i imagine] shaped like a sauser ,, im very curious as to wat that model is of ?
Anyway well done , an keep up the good work ,
All the best ,
Sealord.
:thumbs_up_1:


David k.


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 Post subject: Re: 1/100 HMVS Cerberus
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:14 pm 
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sealord wrote:
I was wondering if you could answer a q for me ,? on your post dated the 29th feb 09,
on the ninth picture of Cerberus , there is another model [yours i imagine] shaped like a sauser ,, im very curious as to wat that model is of ?


Hi David,

it is the Novgorod, one of Vice-Admiral Popoffs circular ironclads (the famous "Popoffkas")for the imperial russian navy that were built to defend Sewastopol.

Some details of the original: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Naval_Science(1874)_p1.html
And an online report of the model (unfortunately in German - maybe I translate it sometimes and post it here - and without pictures as my old provider canceled my webspace):
http://www.u-boot-net.de/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1836&sid=cc1f52055cf60aadebf37241d65864b5

Cheers

Dirk


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