The Ship Model Forum

With the 1/700 Grimsby class Sloop available I thought it would be suitable to start a thread for this interesting class. I'm hoping to go down to London at some point soon (was to be next week but will be longer - I need to go to the Imperial War Museum for research on a book project of mine) and will visit the HMS Wellington. I've managed to get in touch with the Deputy Master of the ship who will do his best to arrange a tour for me when I go down, so will of course get plenty of photographs. In the meantime to help kick off the thread here's the nicest photograph of HMS Wellington i've seen



It's in this scheme I will build my model of the HMS Wellington, using light grey with blue for the dark areas (the instruction sheet says this is possible, and to my eyes, seems to look right)

Hey

A good idea! I will be most likely building mine as Londonderry prewar, in white hull-buff top scheme, for my Port Said, 1937. When my kit will finally arrive

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1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

Petr
Apologies for the delay, I posted the kit today. Demand exceeded supply and available time!

Mike

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To pick up on this, the development of sloops is an interesting subject and having spent a little time looking at them it is remarkable how little difference there really is from a Shoreham and Hastings class, and actually even the Halycyon class minesweepers to the later Black Swan and modified classes. A very neglected area in terms of models certainly and a fertile area for us in the Fine Waterline group in terms of producing the basics for one of these numerous classes of ships. Unglamourous and hard working vessels all, the Indian crewed ships provide a nice counterpoint to the, lets be honest, fairly european and american view of how the second world war was fought.

I'm currently making decent progress with HMAS Yarra, a brave little ship, will post some images soon, it would be great to see how others are progressing, well done to Michel of course for cracking on with it and producing the first actual model! I hope one day to produce a model of one of the later sloops operating in the Burma campaign.

Mike

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I'll take your doing Yarra in her final fit!? I'm most likely going to do her after I'm done with Ottawa. A "light" project between Ottawa and the HMS Unknown cruiser is needed for certain!!!
Also curious is the fact that the Grimsby are very similar to the Portuguese Navy sloops of the mid-30's built influenced by British designs...sadly the dimensions are not the same but the design is pretty much the same.

Filipe

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Filipe
Attempting to, details of aa armament are a little unclear from the few photos so I'm going with inspired guesswork largely.

Mike

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Other then the Quad Vickers after the searchlight platform was she supposed to have any other light AA at the time? Most likely some Lewis guns here and there but those could be retractable.

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John Fisher

Details of Yarra's Weapons fit.

According to Wilson 'RAN Profile No.2 Australian Submarines, Destroyers and Escorts' pp36-37
Armament for Yarra & Swan was:
- 3 x 4-inch singles (A,B & X positions)
- 4 x 3pdr all singles
- 1 x 0.5-inch quad
- 2 x depth charge chutes

This is generally what is similarly listed for Yarra in Jane's 1939, although slightly more info is given there such as:
- A 1936 Australian Naval Board close-up photo of her is shown from the port quarter. The caption notes YARRA (Now mounts M.M.G. abaft S.L.) i.e. the photo doesn't show the 0.5-inch Vickers abaft the searchlight so that must have been added between 1936 and 1939. Therefore it would appear Wilson's notes are as she was by 1939.

Photos in the Wilson book only include one of Yarra launching in 1935. Two more pre-war are in 'Australian Warships Through The Lens 1901 to 1940 Profile No.6 Revised Edition'. This time it is a stb. broadside view taken in early 1936 shortly after commissioning and another undated from the port bow. However in another similar profile I have 'Australia's War at Sea 1939 to 1945 Profile No.5 Revised Edition' p21. there is a small, though excellent, wartime photo of her in dazzle camouflage which is stated to be March 1942, although I feel that date is wrong and more likely refers to the month she was lost. The photo more likely being taken in 1941 and is the same one floating around the net and is in the AWM collection.
She still shows all 3 x 4-inch singles, 0.5-inch Vickers abaft the searchlight, and it would also appear she retains her minesweeping gear on her quarterdeck at whatever date this photo was taken. No radar is visible or any other AA weapons, although the angle of the photo isn't ideal.

Her sistership, Swan does appear to have received a major wartime refit during 1942, which included her armament changing to:
- A & X single 4-inch mounts replaced with 2 x twin 4-inch mounts
- 40mm Bofors replacing B mount
- 6 x 20mm added, locations not given
- 0.5 Vickers retained
- 2 lewis machine guns, locations not given
- 40 depth charges

The second pair of RAN Grimsby class Parramatta and Warrego the only early-war details I could find about them were:
- Parramatta's armament augmented with 2 x 20mm in 1941, but locations not given.
- Warrego underwent a similar major refit as Swan by 1942, as already outlined above, however it is stated her Vickers was replaced by a 40mm Bofors.

There is a small book specifically written on Yarra by the Australian Naval Historical Society, but I only bought the ones they did on destroyers when I was over there in 2002.
I may have more wartime photos of Yarra knocking about, but I've looked already in all references which I knew she may have been covered.
LB

I have a photo showing a side view of Yarra in late fit but it is unclear as to what weapon is fitted, but certainly not the 3" guns. Looks to me like a heavy machine gun, though it is hard to make out and as I'm not sure of the origins of the photo I don't want to break any copyright by putting it up.

Mike

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Any idea as to that Yarra photo's date? Is it 1941 or early 1942?
Is her pendant number clearly visible and it is unquestionably her?
Additionally can you confirm she still retains 2 single 4-inch in A and X positions?

Does the mount at B position resemble anything like the MG her sister ship Swan carried in B position by late war?
Here's one from my database showing it clearly at that time:

http://www.fileden.com/getfile.php?file_path=http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/6/1/1940009/HMAS%20Swan%20L74-U74%20Modified%20Grimsby%20Class%20Sloop.jpg

I was only aware that B mount was replaced by a 40mm Bofors if and when these sloops got their single 4-inch guns removed and replaced with twin 4-inch mounts, or they got 0.5 Vickers in B position, so if you can confirm your photo is unquestionably Yarra during 1941 or 1942 it would then seem she differed to the other RAN ships of this class in this important feature.

I'm not sure why you mentioned a 3-inch mount Mike, as Yarra never had one fitted! Only the RN vessels had one in B position when completed, RAN Grimsby's did not.
This is why I prefer to consider these RAN Grimsby's as 'modified Grimsby's' as they were built slightly later, were some 16ft shorter, but heavier and shipped a different main armament fit.

Finally Hague's Sloops book confirms the only wartime photo I have of Yarra was taken in August 1941.
He further states:
"Yarra completed with three single 4inch HA and 1x Quad Vickers, probably still in that state when lost".
Well I've already showed above the 0.5 vickers was not there when first commissioned and instead was added later between 1936-39, one wonders if your rare wartime photo of Yarra proves Hague was additionally wrong and B mount was in fact replaced by an MG at time of loss.

Look forward to your reply on these interesting warships.
Kind Regards
LB

Got back from a weekend flying vintage aircraft to find the package with my Grimsby class in it, superb and looking forward to getting stuck into it soon. As for anything else WW2 and RN by finewaterline, you make them and i'll buy them!

Rob
Glad it got there safely, we have plans in the pipeline and some progress on kits but they are quite a way off yet on the whole, the Emergency War destroyer is however not too far off production I think.

Mike

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Another one for the collection - HMS Leith in 1942

Looks very nice Don

BTW, L'Arsenal will release soon for some ships of this class the following:
- 3"/12pounder AA gun
- single pom-pom 2 pounder
- Thornycroft DC

Cheers

Gilbert

Excellent news - just what is needed. I look forward to those.

They'll be useful for other ships as well - V&Ws for example.

Yes Graham, perfectly true and we intend to make lots of parts needed for RN ships as we have many of John Lambert's drawings.

Any suggestion is welcome

Cheers

Gilbert

Dear Mike and anyone interested in the RAN Grimbsy's,

I was sent a copy of a wartime photo album taken by someone on board HMAS Hobart during her time in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Far East.
The album itself isn't clearly dated but judging by Hobart's movements the photos in the Eastern Med. would be taken between August 1941 to December 1941.
There are many photos in this album of the ships based in Alexandria during mid-late 1941 including Barham, QE, Valiant, Naiad, Galatea, Hobart, Ceres, Gnat, Ajax etc.

Additionally there are 2 excellent stb. broadside views of both HMAS Yarra U77 and Parramatta (no pendant no.) both in their Alexandria style camouflage and both taken entering Alexandria.
The Parramatta one is most interesting as she was sunk shortly after in Nov 1941 so this must be one of the last clear photographs taken of her before her loss.

Yarra is as follows:
- Single 4-inch in A, B (behind a mass of canvass matting) & X positions
- Quad Vickers still located abaft the searchlight
- Paravanes are stowed on her quarterdeck
- No radar visible at her foremast

Parramatta is as follows:
-Twin 4-inch in A and X positions
- Quad Vickers in B position
- Type 286 radar
- 2 x 20mm amidships just abaft the searchlight and forward of the mainmast at forecastle deck level.

Cheers
LB

Planning my summer trip to London with google earth, I found the HMS Wellington moored on the Thames, digging a bit, I found this usefull post on the Flower corvette forum:

http://theflowerclasscorvetteforums.yuku.com/topic/907

It would be nice to see her fully fitted with guns and radars! Anyway I will add a visit to the Wellington after my usual pilgrimage to the HMS Belfast.

Dino

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I hope you enjoy your visit. There is a notice at the entrance of HMS Wellington that says that visits on board are possible from people with a serious interest. I suggest you look up the Wellington Trust website for contact details to make an appointment if you are interested.
Also, further along the Embankment is HMS President. She was originally HMS Saxifrage, an Anchusa class convoy sloop from 1918 and was intended to be a "Q ship" to decoy submarines.
Both ships are quite a bit altered from their original appearance, but it is great that they are still around.

Best wishes

Don