Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[twilson]

Did any of the Fletcher's go into combat wearing measure 12 (mod)? In Lester Abbey's Shipcraft book he mentions "with very few exceptions" all were repainted prior to deployment; what were the exceptions?

Thanks,

Tom

[Rick E Davis]

Tom,

This question has been asked many times. (You can review all the past entries in this thread for the discussions) From photos of Nicholas taken just prior to her going to the South Pacific after she was painted in Ms 18 at Boston during August 1942 and textual records that O'Bannon was repainted the week AFTER Nicholas at Boston in an unidentified "new camo paint scheme" ... I'm sure that neither of those two were painted in Ms 12 mod upon arriving in the Pacific. Fletcher was upgraded with a second twin 40-mm mount on the fantail at New York the last week in August. There are no photos of her available from early August until about January 1943 to indicate her camo. But, orders were sent out to the destroyers in the Cactus force to repaint into Ms 21 in early November. NONE of the Fletchers that followed the first three were painted in Ms 12 mod. Some arrived to the South Pacific in Ms 22 or Ms 18.

Many of the early Fletchers prior to August 1942, were delivered and served for a time in Ms 12 mod as they worked up and performed local escort missions on the East Coast.

Nicholas arrived in the South Pacific "war zone" on 14 September 1942 and apparently repainted (or finished painting) on 12 November to Ms 21 (War Diary entry). O'Bannon and Fletcher arrived at the beginning of October 1942. Information from crew members say that O'Bannon repainted in early November 1942 to Ms 21. I don't know what camo Fletcher was painted to prior to early November ... but after the first of November she was likely painted in Ms 21. I have not taken the time to dig into Fletcher's records at NARA to see if more light can be shed on this area, but I have found it hard to find camo info on these ships in textual records to be sparse. But, there may be a Depart Report from New York Navy Yard that would indicate IF she was repainted in the end of August. At this time no one knows what Fletcher's camo was when she arrived in the South Pacific. My personal feeling is that it is unlikely that she was painted in Ms 12 mod. But, I don't know.

By the way, the often published image of Fletcher's Starboard side on 26 March 1943 that seems to show her partially still painted in "Ms 18" ... doesn't show the whole story. Here is a portside view taken at the same time. I think the "lighter" shade of paint seen on the starboard side is primer.

USS Fletcher (DD-445) on 26 March 1943

[twilson]

Rick,

Thanks--I appreciate your detailed response; sorry to be redundant. I've looked at previous posts (and I'm sure I missed some of them), but the questions seem to have concerned specific ships and their camo at a given period, verses looking at which ships had MS 12 mod in combat.

Sincerely,

Tom

[Rick E Davis]

Tom,

I'm not much of a camo expert, but I do collect photos with ship configurations being my main interest and I know that others do have a keen interest in knowing how a given ship was painted at a specific period so I keep an eye out for something unusual. Unlike configurations that can be tracked via textual records, I have found camo and painting of ships can not most times be tracked that way. Crews could and did repaint ships in one day in forward areas and then again a few weeks/months later and if no photos are available ... we may never know about it.

[MEGADETH9mm]

mast complete. took a couple hours. also camo to railings where appropriate adjusted. thanks again for the tip timmy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tcamo5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tcamo4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tcamo3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tcamo2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tcamo1.jpg

what color do you suggest i paint the lifesaver rings?

[MEGADETH9mm]

Another question, having a hard time building this from scratch.

Anyone know what this is, any tips on how to scratchbuild these structures? Anyone on the internet sell these 1/350 scale? There's one on either side of the ship.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... letch2.jpg

[les]

That's a wartime mod for dual or quad 40 mm guns.

[Sauragnmon]

Like Les said, that's the wartime conversion for two Bofors Quads sidesaddle in place of one of the torpedo racks. What you're looking at is the outboard support post for the position.

[Timmy C]

Lifesaver rings can be painted white.

[MEGADETH9mm]

Lifesaver rings can be painted white.

thanks timmy

[MEGADETH9mm]

Like Les said, that's the wartime conversion for two Bofors Quads sidesaddle in place of one of the torpedo racks. What you're looking at is the outboard support post for the position.

thinking of using the Eduard "USS FLETCHER" plaques, cutting them to shape, gluing them together into the form of these structures. i wish there was a clear pic of what's "under" the overhangs of them. is it "open"? is it a "closed" wall with a door? hmmmm....

[Sauragnmon]

It's open under the platforms, complete pass through area.

[Rick E Davis]

MEGA,

The area on the photo you posted/referenced is the clipping room below the twin 40-mm mount abreast the second stack. The platform that the 40-mm mount was installed on sat on the clipping room with a passageway between the clipping room and deckhouse on the main deck. The "clips" with 40-mm rounds were assembled and passed to the mount above. The cross-section of the clipping room on the main deck was not rectangular in shape ... it was angled at the forward side.

The quad 40-mm mounts on the late war Anti-Kamikaze mod were also mounted on a clipping room with a different shape that was rectangular in shape.

Below are to views of the clipping room from front and back for Fletchers with twin 40-mm mounts and one photo of a quad 40-mm installation.

DD-687 Uhlmann on 4 December 1943


DD-685 Picking on 4 October 1943


DD-682 Porterfield on 1 October 1945

[MEGADETH9mm]

Rick thanks a lot for those pics they are a great help. so far i am bending the "eduard" "USS FLETCHER" display plaques, to form these structures from scratch. will post pics when get it completed. sorry no pics as of late, been procrastinating this difficult task for a week now. i start on it, and i'm like man f-this, i'm playin some xbox live. hopefully i can get it done by this week. if i garner the will power.

[MEGADETH9mm]

My labor tonight:
chopped up Eduard "USS FLETCHER" display plaques, molded shaped clipping rooms and top 40mm levels with the material.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... scrap1.jpg
Here's both clipping rooms assembled.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... smbled.jpg
Clipping rooms up close.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... close1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... close2.jpg
Attached both clipping rooms to deckhouse. Unfortunately, the rooms themselves are slightly taller than the deckhouse, making an uneven and difficult task to come.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tached.jpg
Painted the top of deckhouse. Next to it, a railing wrapped in paper.(best i could do).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... ainted.jpg
Railings attached.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... tached.jpg
All Painted.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... ainted.jpg
Eduard deckhouse grating down.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... ngdown.jpg
All attached, Camo matched, additional rails and ladder added:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... hcamo1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... hcamo2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... hcamo3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/s ... hcamo4.jpg

Lots of blemishes to be touched up, and some of the paint gobbed on some areas of concern. securing those clipping rooms to the deck was brutal, given the nature of height difference between the CRs and the deckhouse. used scotch tape to patch areas of concern. You know you are straining when everything on your modeling desk begins to shudder. next i need 2 l'arsenal 40mm guns. need to add some clip baskets too. i can make those from scratch from an eduard railing.

[Dick J]

One comment, the 40MM tubs were surrounded by steel splinter screens, unlike the top of the pilothouse which had canvas "dodgers" attached to the railings. The "latticework" you might see on the inside of the tubs is not a railing. It is the racks to store the clips of 40MM shells - that was the "ready-service" storage.

[Sleepwalker]

As far as I know there was no such grating over all supestructure deck. Only catwalk shown at your photos (hanging at the end) and some extension of the deck next to this catwalk (not shown here) was perforated.

[MEGADETH9mm]

One comment, the 40MM tubs were surrounded by steel splinter screens, unlike the top of the pilothouse which had canvas "dodgers" attached to the railings. The "latticework" you might see on the inside of the tubs is not a railing. It is the racks to store the clips of 40MM shells - that was the "ready-service" storage.

i saw that too. unfortunately, the only material i had to create something similar was some of the Eduard PE railings and paper.

[MEGADETH9mm]

As far as I know there was no such grating over all supestructure deck. Only catwalk shown at your photos (hanging at the end) and some extension of the deck next to this catwalk (not shown here) was perforated.

i wonder why Eduard makes that for thier set. i'm going to leave that on there, looks cool. must sacrifice realism here and there i guess.

[Dick J]

Something on the SN site that I thought was worth retaining. Posted by Rick E Davis on July 29, 2009, 16:20:10, in reply to "Anti-Kamikaze fit Fletcher Class DD?"

The USN did start studying boosting the AA Armament on all ships in late 1944. The experiments with twin, triple, and quad 20-mm, quad 0.50-cal mounts were part of that. In early 1945 (about February) the USN revised the "Ultimate" Armament of the Fletcher class. While keeping the five twin 40-mm mounts, they specified two Mk 63 GFCS for the two amidships twin 40-mm mounts and as Dick said, replaced the seven single 20-mm guns with six twin 20-mm mounts. Only one destroyer that I'm aware of actually got this new "Ultimate" armament ... USS Halford (DD-480). Several other, but very few, other destroyers got the six twin 20-mm mounts w/o the Mk 63 GFCS (they were in short supply with the large warships having priority).

As the first Fletchers were being modified to the revised Ultimate armament, the losses from Kamikazes pushed the USN to boost the AA armament on ALL ships. In late April 1945, a "Temporary Authorized" Armament was ordered for Fletchers ... the quad 40-mm mounts replaced the amidships twin 40-mm mounts and the forward quint TT mount and the six twin 20-mm mounts replaced the singles. They were suppose to get the Mk 63, but only about 1/3 of the modified destroyers got it. Only a few were completed prior to the end of the war ... the first ones to return to the war zone were actually among the ships at the surrender. And as far as I have found, do not appear to have fired their guns in action. With the end of the war, the modification of any more ships than those started were largely cancelled ... after all these ships were SUPPOSE to revert to five twin 40-mm and ten TT. 49 units started the mods during the war and were completed between June and December 1945. Three additional units were modified in 1946-47, making a total of 52 ... AND THAT IS A FIRM NUMBER.

During the mobilization recommissioning for the Korean War, the 82 Fleet Fletchers (also 18 DDE's were commissioned) that didn't already have quad 40-mm mounts, were either modified with twin 3-in mounts or were given the quad 40-mm mounts and six twin 20-mm mounts and lost the forward twin 40-mm mounts to two hedgehogs. The 20-mm guns were removed in 1953-54.

The Sumners and Gearings were ordered in April 1945 to replace the aft quint TT mount with a quad 40-mm mount and the single 20-mm guns with twin 20-mm mounts. Gearings were modified during construction or shortly there after at a Navy Yard. Many Sumners were on the front-line and I have not tried to figure out how many actually were updated during the war.