What-If U.S.S. John Paul Jones FRAM

[commodore4]

I have often wondered what the profile or armament wouldve been if the NAVY had chosen to FRAM the class of DDs that the JPJ was part of? I think of her and I have often toyed around with the idea.I get my info from my time on FRAM gearings.I just think that a great class of ships was stricken to soon. How about it anyone got any ideas??? Thank you commodore4

[Cliffy B]

The class in question is the Forest Sherman Class in service from the mid '50s until the mid '80s. They turned several into DDGs with a Mk-13, ASROC, and only the bow 5"/54. But they stopped those because they proved to be far too costly. Most of the rest of the class received an ASROC in place of Mount 52 instead and retained one 5"/54 bow and stern. Only a few retained all 3 guns through out their careers.

ASROC replacements
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0593720.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0593821.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0594029.jpg

I always liked the look of the Forest Shermans, they had some nice lines. Some possible ideas would maybe be adding an ASROC in place of Mount 53 and installing a DASH hanger in place of Mount 52 retaining only the forward 5"/54. Could enlarge the hanger enough to accommodate an SH-2 LAMPS I helo as well as the drones. That would improve their ASW capabilities immensely over their original layout. Some quad Harpoon canisters wouldn't hurt either.

It all depends on what time you want to perform the FRAM and which area you want to concentrate on, ASW, AAW, ASUW or a combination.

That's all I have for now. Anyone else?

[Sauragnmon]

I like the aft ASROC idea there, Cliff - replace 53 with an ASROC, put a Mk13 with the launcher set aft, on 52. You can have the ASROC with the reload magazine fed off the bulkhead forward of the mount. Retain the Mk42, or up it to a 45 for a more modern setup, and either you upgrade the GFCS and rewire the Mk42 to support a newer FCS, so you can retain that beefy rate of fire if you really wanted to. You could probably upgrade the ASW systems as well, and of course you'd need to find places for directors for that Mk13.

Alternately, put in a small VLS for tactical weapon options instead of the ASROC, retain both Mk42's, you now have ASW and AAW support. Not sure how many cells you could fit, but likely at least 16 cells if not more down the length of that rise.

[Cliffy B]

The DDG conversions got an ASROC and a Mk-13 (I think it might have actually been a Mk-22, the 16 round version) in place of mounts 52 and 53.

Some photos:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0593617.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/05013115.jpg

All ships with Mk-42s kept them through out their careers but the GFCS was updated. The DDG-2 class had their Mk-68s replaced with Mk-86s with SPQ-9 and SPG-60 so there's an idea as well. That extra rate of fire is really nice; about twice that of the Mk-45 at the cost of being heavier. If you want them to be a strict ASW escort then I'd vote for a CIWS instead of a Mk-13 in place of Mount 53 and an ASROC with reload mag in Mount 52. Throw in some Harpoon canisters or convert half of the ASROC like the Knox Class had and upgrade the GFCS and radars. If there was a way to retain Mount 53 AND have a CIWS mount aboard I'd prefer that route to maintain some volume of fire.

I like the ASROC re-builds I posted earlier, just need to find room for a CIWS where a gun or missile wouldn't mess it up...hmmm.

Thoughts?

[Sauragnmon]

Since this is a FRAM for the John Paul Jones, one of the DDG Conversions, I have to wonder - are you going to FRAM the DDG version?

CIWS positions could be on wings built out of the bridge structure, or on platforms off the aft block - that in itself could be expanded to two directors for improved capacity, and to house a reload connection for the ASROC position. On the DD versions, CIWS could be mounted on new blockhouses in the center extended out towards the beam. Conversely, one could also look at something like NSSM forward behind mount 51 for additional support.

There's a lot of potential options you could take to with regards to FRAMing a Forrest Sherman DD/DDG

[commodore4]

Hey, thanks guys. I am an engineer so all the weps and assoc. systems are a puzzle to me.I was thinking along the lines of what they did to my beautiful GEARING.I didn,t really like the FRAM, but that hangar was neater than the mess deck for movies! We never did fly the helos.They just got moved in and out and thats about it. Our ASROC, now that was neat.The reloads were on the starboard side of the hangar with the control and launch room? on the 01 deck right behind the launcher.The B.M.s were always cracking their heads on it when they were up there.The best part of the conversion for us D.C. s is we got to move topside forward of the officers. It was a little rougher ride but lots of room to stretch out.I thought on the J.P.J., I would try a littoral type appearance with the FRAM my old ship had.I just don,t know what type of radars to use. This project is still in the planning stage. Thanks for the input commodore4