Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[MartinJQuinn]

I did want to mention one other thing. Although the model I am building is of a "standard" Fletcher class destroyer, I was wondering if anyone could direct me as to where I could get some 688 decals for the bow?

Thanks

If you are talking about the numbers used during WW2 (I forget how high they are), YMW has a set.

[Rick E Davis]

"Guest?"

REMEY (DD-688) was a Square-bridge unit, the REVELL 1/144 scale FLETCHER kit is of the earliest Round-Bridge version. There is a Square-bridge conversion set for this kit, if you wish to go that route. Here are three 1/144 scale FLETCHER builds that the builders are documenting on this website. The first one is a Square-bridge conversion that would be close to your desired build. You will need a Square-bridge conversion set, five twin 40-mm mounts, and seven 20-mm single guns.

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REMEY was delivered by BIW, completed by Boston Navy Yard and was painted in Ms 21, overall 5-N. Below are images of REMEY at Boston after she completed her outfitting on 16 October 1943. At this time she was one of 50+ FLETCHERS to have three Mk 49 directors and one of the few to get the Mk 19 radar installed on those directors (as can be seen in the images controlling the aft three twin 40-mm mounts) and two Mk 51 directors (on the bridge wings) controlling the forward pair of twin 40-mm mounts. There are no aftermarket Mk 49 directors available in any scale. The Mk 49 directors were not sucessful and were replaced on many FLETCHERS ... but not all ... by early 1944. REMEY wasn't altered much during the war, except having the Mk 49 directors replaced with Mk 51 directors.

REMEY did not have twin rudders. Even though several references have stated that the last few FLETCHERS (~DD800-804) had twin rudders ... available photos only show the standard SINGLE rudder.





And an image of REMEY on 11 December 1945 in the process of being mothballed. Note this view shows some of the details unique to the late built BIW FLETCHERS.

[Red Devil Squadron]

Hello Guest,

You will find a wealth of information here on Fletchers, including DD688. In particular, Rick is a superb source of knowledge. Like you, my dad was a WWII Fletcher sailor on Wadleigh DD689 from early January to late October 1945. As you may already know Remey was the flagship for the "Red Devil" squadron DESRON54 and carried the Red Devil insignia on her forward funnel in 1945. If you want to model Remey in 1945, let me know and I can send you the artwork I did for the squadron insignia decals. For the "688" hull numbers, you can consider dry transfer numbers made by Model Graphics (MG747) and sold by Woodland Scenics - they are spot on. Have a look at these photos of my 1/125 scale Mertz DD691 to get an idea about the graphics:

Cheers,

Bill

[Guest]

Thanks for the info on Woodland Scenics. I used you advise and ordered a set of decals so I could make the Fletcher closer to DD-688.

[Guest]

Does anyone know where I can purchase a Square-bridge conversion set, five twin 40-mm mounts, and seven 20-mm single guns for the generic Fletcher kit. Also I would like info as how I could get the "Red Devil" insignias used on the stack.

Thanks

[Rick E Davis]

Guest,

Nautilus is the only maker I'm aware of for a Square-bridge conversion. Reference the three builds I listed earlier for their impressions of this conversion set. There are several manufactures producing 1/144 scale twin 40-mm and 20-mm guns, again check the three build threads for specific information.

[maxs75]

RADFORD had from November 1942 until about mid-December 1943: two twin 40-mm mounts and seven 20-mm guns, ten torpedo tubes, six K-Guns, and two depth charge drop tracks. Period, nothing was added until she was upgraded to the five twin 40-mm mounts and seven 20-mm guns configuration (similar to WATTS).

Armament locations:
51 and 52 mounts,
On 01 deck before the bridge; 2-20mm guns (one port and one starboard) NO twin 40-mm mounts,
Atop pilothouse; one 20-mm gun on centerline,
Mk 37 director with Mk 4 radar,
Between first and second stack and aft of second stack; two quint torpedo tube mounts (Mk 14 and Mk 15),
On main deck; two 20-mm single mounts on port side and two 20-mm on starboard side,
53 mount,
One twin 40-mm mount centerline at the 02 level with mk 51 director forward of mount above 53 mount,
54 and 55 mounts,
abreast the 53 and 54 mounts on main deck; three K-gun (ASW depth charge mortars/throwers) per side to port and starboard for 300-lb Depth Charges,
On fantail; one twin 40-mm mount with Mk 51 director aft of mount,
Two 600-lb depth charge drop racks on either side of the twin 40-mm mounts.

Hello,
is it possible to have a summary about the single ship's AA outfit early in the war?
This is what I know now:
1) Bath I.W.
I know that the first few were completed with one quad 1.1. AFAIK they were Nicholas, O'Bannon and Chevalier.
DD-449 and 450 went very soon to Pacific, so I guess they retained the 1.1 guns. Chevalier arrived later, so maybe she was upgraded in late 1942 (?), and I guess she was sunk in that (upgraded?) configuration.
Strong (467) and later ships had 2 twin 40mm instead of 1.1 quad. Maybe all DD-467-469 and DD-507 to 517.
Then DD-629 had 3 twins, and later ships had 5 twins. Is that right?

2) Federal
Fletcher was built with one twin 40mm, but upgraded to 5 twin 40mm in the mid 1943 refit, while Nicholas and O'Bannon had 5 twins only in early 1944.
Radford, Jenkins, La Vallette, Saufley and Waller were built soon after Fletcher, but they went to SoPac in late 1942, and maybe they had two twin 40mm? Then La Vallette was damaged and refitted with 5 twins in mid 1943. The first two had 5 twins in early 1944. The last two were refitted about sept. 1944, and I guess they had 5 twins. Don't know if any earlier upgrade.

Then DD-498-502 were built with 2 twins (?), but DD-500-502 went to Pacific in mid 1943 and they could have had more 40mm. Then DD-659-661 were built with 3 twins, then DD-666-680 had mostly or all 5 twins.

3) Consolidated
DD-569 Aulick: maybe 2 twin 40 mm?
DD-570 Ausburne to 575 Mc Kee: updated to 3 twin 40mm
DD-576 to 580: updated to 5 twins.

Let's stop here for now.
Any correction is really welcome

Max

[Rick E Davis]

Max,

I'm not going to write a book ... at least not here to cover ALL 175 FLETCHERS. I suggest you look at this graph chart that Dave McComb produced from data I provided to him a couple of years ago. There are some errors I found from further research, but is accurate in showing the initial armament and fairly accurate on when (by month) the armament was upgraded.

... http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletche ... ament.html ... The list is in order of COMMISSIONING, which gives a clearer view of how the AA configuration for the class changed with time.

If you have individual ship's you are interested in, I can provide more detail for that ship (maybe). But, please the configuration history during WWII for 175 destroyers of this class is a chore. Read all of the preceding pages to this thread, many ships of the class are covered already.

A few notes: CHEVALIER (DD-451) retained her quad 1.1-in mount right up to her loss. She differed from her two quad 1.1-in mount equipped BIW sisters in having a centerline elevated platform installed before the bridge for a 20-mm gun. FLETCHER, RADFORD, JENKINS, La VALLETTE, SAUFLEY, and STRONG were delivered with the original higher "tub" in between 53 and 54 mounts. FLETCHER, RADFORD, JENKINS, and La VALLETTE had initially a single twin 40-mm mount installed by the New York Navy Yard (the only ones so armed). The others ... SAUFLEY and STRONG ... were modified by New York Navy Yard and Boston Navy Yard respectively, to the revised configuration of two twin 40-mm mounts ... one on the fantail and with the lower tub location between 53 and 54 mounts ... before going to the Pacific. FLETCHER, JENKINS, and La VALLETTE had a second twin 40-mm mount added to the fantail, but retained the high tub before going to the Pacific. RADFORD on shakedown/training suffered collision damage and during repairs was altered to the revised two twin 40-mm mounts with a lower tub configuration before going to the Pacific. Look at the above chart for info on when these ships (if they were) upgraded to five twin 40-mm configuration. Many of the follow-on units built by BIW and Federal and other builders were delivered with two twin 40-mm mounts, but were shortly after shakedown or immediately upon delivery, upgraded to the three twin 40-mm mounts. DD629-631 and DD642-644 were delivered with three twin 40-mm mounts. ABBOT (DD-629) went to the Pacific with this configuration but was updated at Pearl harbor after collision damage in October 1943. The other five BIW built units of this group were modified to the five twin 40-mm mounts configuration prior to going to the Pacific. AULICK (DD-569) did go to the Pacific in the two twin 40-mm mounts configuration. AULICK grounded on a reef not long after arriving in the South Pacific and went to Pearl Harbor for repeirs ... which is a story by itself.

Numbers of 20-mm guns carried varies pretty wildly for the first 20 or so FLETCHERS to arrive in the Pacific. For some of the units I have yet to figure out what and when the number of 20-mm guns carried were and/or changed.

[maxs75]

Thank you very much.
Very interesting site! I did know that web site but I didn't find that page that has most of what I needed.
I wasn't aware of the 4 twin configuration.

As far as you know, is there something similar about Benson/Gleaves class?
That site http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson- ... ament.html says that still in late 1942/early 1943 the new units had 10 tubes, while I read elsewhere that only 5 tubes were carried.
But better shift this argument in the right place!

Max

[Rick E Davis]

The surviving early (DD421-444) BENSON-GLEAVES class units retained ten TT as an "authorized" armament (some didn't carry both mounts) even with two twin 40-mm mounts installed. But, all of the repeat-BENSON-GLEAVES units only had five TT. I'll have to bug Dave McComb about that error.

[Cliffy B]

Mike,

The 4-Gun FLETCHERS were not FRAM conversions and none were given a FRAM upgrade. The only FLETCHER FRAM's were the three already mentioned ... former DDE's. The 4-Gun FLETCHERS, also called SCB 74A, were the result of upgrading the class with 3-in guns replacing the 40-mm armament and one of the 5-in guns. 82 "Square-Bridge" FLETCHERS were recommissioned in the Korean War mobilization. The original plans were to upgrade all of them to this standard, but in the end less than half were upgraded.

39 FLETCHERS were modified in 1951-54 to the 4-Gun mod while in the USN service and several others for foreign navies (including some "Round-bridge" units. There are several references with lists of the FLETCHERS modified, but most are not totally accurate. Over the careers of these SCB-74A units, there were many changes to electronics, bridge layout, and torpedo tubes.

Which ship (ships) are you interested in modeling and during which years? Do you have particular areas that you need details of?

Rick,

Sorry for responding so late but I wanted to thank you for posting this info and list! To answer your question about which ship I'm interested in modeling, I plan on building (in 1/700) the USS McGowan (DD-678) in her Korean-War fit. I've been trying to find photos of her from that time period and its like pulling teeth. If you have any photos or more info about her from that time period I'd greatly appreciate it! I think I'll be kit bashing the Skywave Callaghan and Trumpy Sullivans for this one.

Thanks in advance,
-Mike

[Rick E Davis]

Mike,

McGOWAN (DD-678) is fairly easy to define her configuration while serving off Korea. Building a model of her in that configuration may require extra work.

McGOWAN was recommissioned on 6 July 1951 at Long Beach Navy Yard. She was still configured with five twin 40-mm mounts and initially operated in this configuration for shakedown training. Then she sailed to the Atlantic before the year was out for modernization. So, she never served off Korea in this configuration.

DD-678 McGOWAN in late 1951. What is interesting is at some point, during mid-late 1945 or as mothballed or as recommissioned, she has had her single 20-mm guns replaced with twin 20-mm mounts.


McGOWAN reported to Boston Navy Yard for upgrade to the 4-Gun configuration (SCB-74A) ... 21 January to 20 May 1952. She was one of the first group of FLETCHERS to be upgraded (#14 or so) and went directly from five twin 40-mm mounts to the 4-Gun configuration and didn't ever have quad 40-mm mounts. McGOWAN then went to Korea in the Fall of 1952 (see DANFS entry).

DD-678 McGOWAN likely off Korea on 23 January 1953. I have thought this was an interesting shot.




You will need to locate some twin 3-in RFG mounts, Mk 56 GFCS, and do some scratch building. Locating some plans from a book like "The SULLIVANS" would help to understand where the deckhouses were modified, extended outboard P/S, to support the twin 3-in mounts.

[Cliffy B]

Rick,

AWESOME!!!!! Thank you sir

I know of the book, its the "Anatomy of The Ship" volume of the Sullivans. Good plans indeed. Alright, so she was a standard 4-gun Fletcher then, good. I wanted to make sure she didn't have some unique alterations/features before I started the build. Thanks again Rick!

-Mike

Edit: The book with plans for the 4-gun Fletchers (as well as the entire class throughout their many lives) is called "Fletcher-Class Destroyers" by Alan Raven. The AOTS volume I mentioned has a myriad of plans but only for the WWII configs. Just wanted to correct my goof there.

Edit Number 2: OK, I'm a dummy... Rick you were right about the ATOS book having the 4-gun config in the plans. I got that and Raven's book confused for the umpteenth time. They're the same size, same layout, and both have a painting on the cover. I was also confusing the Sullivans with the Kidd thinking that she was never altered from the original 5-gun config. Fletchers are pretty darn confusing!!! Sorry guys

[Rick E Davis]

Mike,

Depending on how accurate you want details for McGOWAN specific to her first Korean tour, minor modifications occurred to the 4-Gun FLETCHERS over time. McGOWAN in this view is unusual in retaining double roller racks for the "K-Guns", most of the class went to single roller racks before losing K-Guns altogether in about 1954. It doesn't show well at this aspect, but McGOWAN and the other early units didn't have an "canvas awning type cover" over the forward navigation bridge. It didn't take long for one to appear and eventually these got more "permanent" than just a canvas cover including a plexus-glass windshield. The USN played with "how" the empty cartridges were handled for removal on not just FLETCHERS, but SUMNERS and GEARINGS as well (wouldn't be surprised on all ships) over time. Another area that saw many changes were the ECM antennas on the aft stack and/or short "mainmast" on the fore end of the Mk 56 director tower.

Here is a view of McGOWAN's sister, McNAIR (DD-679) that was modified at Boston Navy Yard at the same time as McGOWAN. This will give you an idea of what the bridge area looked like on the early 4-Gun FLETCHERS.

[Ken]

If your interested, the link below has a 'tour' going on of a Fletcher class DD. Lot's of pics of the USS Kidd along with stories from guys who served in the Navy and some that worked in the shipyards.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/naval- ... class.html

[les]

Better yet, volunteer for a Field Day. Go aboard on Thursday and leave on Sunday. Then you get to see all the nooks and crannies and spend hours with those vets that served on her or other destroyers. Check their website for information.

[t.wall]

Good evening. First time on this forum. Thought I would ask about the USS Herbert J. Thomas (DD833). I have been unable to get any information on her after she completed (what I believe to be) FRAM conversion at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in 1966 +/- to an anti-biological/chemical warfare ship (one of a kind, I suppose) with pressurized interior, plastic/Plexiglas bubbles on the starboard and port wings of the bridge and revolving doors forward and aft (port side). The last I heard of her was that she was sold to the Nationalist Chinese and later sunk (on purpose). At the time I was stationed on her, I took pictures of the bubbles, etc., but never got the pictures back from the photo developer...(probably with good reason - being that she was experimental. Anyway, I am not sure if the HJT was a Fletcher class, but if she is, she can probably be added to the list of FRAM converted Fletchers.

[Dick J]

Anyway, I am not sure if the HJT was a Fletcher class, but if she is, she can probably be added to the list of FRAM converted Fletchers.

DD-833 was a Gearing class DD, a design that was descended from the earlier Fletcher, but larger and with distinct differences. Only a few of the low-numbered Fletcher's which had been converted to the DDE config were FRAMMED. The Thomas was a DDR (radar picket), but most of the ships so designated lost that distinction when the FRAM upgrade was performed. There are a few shots that show the bubbles on the Navsource site. http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/833.htm A number of other Gearings were also rated as DDE's, but again, lost that "identity" with the FRAM program upgrades.

[Sten Ekedahl]

I spent the year 68/69 in Detroit as an exchange student at Ferndale High School. The father in my host family, John D. Blanchette, served on DD-573 USS Harrison during WWII. He served on this ship from the day it was launched until the end of the war. I have decided to build a 1/350 model of this destroyer to honor his memory (he died in a car accident in 2001). I have found a lot of information about USS Harrison on the net; Navsource, destroyerhistory.org, hullnumber.com and destroyersonline.com. Any other good sources? I know that there are differences within the Fletcher-class - round bridge (thats how USS Harrison looks to me) , square bridge, high bridge, low bridge, etc. But being so unfamiliar with destroyers I have difficulties telling these differences apart when looking at photos. My first question is which kit to use. So far I know only of the Tamiya kit, any other ones? Next question is which mods are necessary to make this kit accurate for USS Harrison? I know she had two armament refits during the war (from 4 as built, to 6 and finally to 10x40mm guns). Since he served on board from launch to VJ-day, I have the choice of building the model in any of these versions, depending on wich date I pick. Any recomended aftermarket parts?

TIA

[Cliffy B]

To help you decide on a time period, take a look at Ship camouflage.com's camo chart for the Fletchers.

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/fletcher_class.htm

You can build her in Ms. 21, 22, or 31/2C; a dazzle scheme. The other two are simple overall blue or blue and gray schemes.

Ms. 31/2C
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/DesignShe ... DD-445.jpg

Hope that helps some.

-Mike