Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[oneslim]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the offer.

Can You get some shots of the condition 'Tags' (X, W, Z etc. and where they are ) on the hatches? Also the catwalks on the aft deck house, showing structure under, refueling hoses, and conduit. And if Your SD card is big enough some shots of the rigging fittings, and antena lead-ins.

Thanks

Bob W

[Peter Bouwer]

Les this is fantastic news, I have pm'd you.
This is why I love this forum. I Wish I could walk around on the Kidd in Baton Rouge but I am afraid it is not possible for me to get there in person.
I am converting the Revell Fletcher to the late war USS Kidd and will be ready to post pics soonish.
I have scratch built the 6 twin Oerlikons, the 3 twin and two quad Bofors, the 6 K guns and the late war depth charge racks, and am now altering the forward superstructure and pilot house.
Regards, Peter

[DonBurch]

oneslim (Bob),

Could you tell me more about your condition tag request for when I visit the USS Kidd? I'm never been in the navy (just an enthusiast) so I want to be sure I understand exactly what you want.

- Don

[oneslim]

Don,

They are SS signs, 6" square with about a 4" capital letter in black or red. They are on each hatch to show which ones can be open, or must be doged down, for whatever 'condition' is set on the ship. Below are two I made while touring USS The Sullivans. I didn't know what I was doing back then. Also Nautilus models has a decal sheet with them in 1/144 scale for the Revel Kit.

http://nautilusmodels.com/144-203.htm

Thanks

Bob W

[raggs]

Old newbie needs some help.

After the modeling bug has hit me after a 20 year hiatus, I need some help in upgrading a couple old "Plain Jane" 1980's Skywave Fletchers. I have enough of the Weapons kits to do the armament job and a ton of leftovers still in the parts bins, but I need some dimensions on the square bridge version as all I have is the round bridge. I'm sure I could bugger something up, but after 20 years it seem 1/700 has gotten smaller and the hands could use some steadying. If someone has a site with plans I'd appriciated it, or if someone on chance has a spare bridge they'd be willing to swap.............

Also can you guys recommend some PE for me. Looking for hatches, doors to dress things ups and maybe some ladders to get rid of the aztec stairs on future rebuilds.

Great site, wish I had this info 20 years ago.

Thanks,

Paul

[Rick E Davis]

Paul,

I don't know how hard they are to find in your area, but sometimes you can find the "W-01" FLETCHER kits (not the original "1" kits that were only round bridge) which were revised from the earlier kits and had both round and square bridges and the JMSDF bridge in the kits. I see them in the vendors area at Model Shows all the time for as little as around $5-8 a piece. Also, Tamiya has the "Callaghan" Square bridge kit and Trumpeter has the "The Sullivans" Square bridge kit in 1/700. If you want an example to "copy" you could buy one of these and pattern your scratch-builds after those parts.

The early Skywave kits (use to be Green Max before Pitroad bought them) from back in the 1970's are pretty dated. I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to update the kits. If you get frustrated in the effort, try looking at the 1/700 Tamiya kits. The major problem with them is their undersized 5-in mounts.

[Rev Zoom]

Planning on doing the Johnston using the Revell 144 kit. From the few pictures I can find, this looks like a square bridge version. Please correct me if this is wrong. Also, any other specific details you all might be aware of? Thanks in advance.
Kevin

[Rick E Davis]

JOHNSTON was a Square Bridge unit. The Revell 1/144 scale kit would need a fair amount of work to convert to a Square bridge unit.

There is or were conversion sets from Nautilus with resin parts for converting to a Square Bridge unit. You also will need at least four more twin 40-mm mounts (the Revell kit comes with only one). If you look at drawings and photos of Square-Bridge FLETCHERS you will see the changes required. There is a lot of information in the "Calling All Ships - FLETCHER class" forum. Several individuals have started or have worked on various versions of the 1/144 scale FLETCHER kit in the "Picture Post: Works in Progress" forums, look through the first couple of pages for the posts for their insights.

There are not many photos of the JOHNSTON, but look for views of sister units built by the same yard. I have seen a photo of JOHNSTON taken in September 1944 and she remained in Ms 21 camo.

The most common photo of JOHNSTON available.


A couple of photos of LAWS (DD-558) a sister built at Seattle-Tacoma (Todd) Shipbuilding

[Rev Zoom]

Thanks, guys. I bought the one that Glen (rotorhead) had for sale and it comes with 5X Twin 40s. So, it's a start. Should have asked Glen to oil can the hull for me before he sent it. Couldn't have taken more than an hour or 2, right?
Kevin

[Winks]

Thanks, guys. I forgot I had a login here. DOH. Anyway, I purchased the kit and accessories Glen (rotorhead) had for sale. That comes with 5 twin 40s, so it is a place to start. My next long term project now that I finished the Flower Class corvette with all the GLS brass replacement parts.
Thanks
Kevin

[Cliffy B]

Rick,

I've been trying to figure something out about the USS Kidd (DD-661) but NavSource and Haze Gray are kaput for the foreseeable future. Do you have any shots of her off Korea? I know she started the war in her 1945 fit with very few alterations in addition to a new paint job. By the late 1950's she had a pair of hedgehogs below the bridge where the twin 40mms were. Do you know when she got those hedgehogs and what other alterations were made at that time? I have two photos, one from Dec 1952 (WWII fit) and then one from 1958 (Hedgehogs). I'm aiming for an early 1953 fit if possible. I want to build her up before I tackle the 4-gun conversion. They'd make a nice contrast I think.

Thanks,

-Mike

[Rick E Davis]

Mike,

KIDD was re-commissioned (28 March 1951 at San Diego Navy Yard ... about the 26th FLETCHER re-commissioned) as you say in the configuration she was at the end of the war ... with fourteen 40-mm guns. The photo below shows her still with the searchlights in place, which is odd because most re-commissioned FLETCHERS had them removed.

Between about 11 February and 10 May 1952 (dates she was "scheduled" anyway) she was updated with what we call the 5-Gun Mod ... hedgehogs, new fire control radar, and updated comm. That is likely when she had the Hedgehogs replacing the forward twin 40-mm mounts. She retained the pole foremast her entire career. The 20-mm guns were removed in 1953 from all USN destroyers. Since KIDD sailed to Korea on her first cruise in June 1951 not long after re-commissioning, she likely looked like the first image below at that time. She entered Mare Island Navy Yard after her return from that tour.

Here are the three images I have for her throughout the period. The dates are only "approximate" since these photos were not dated.

About summer 1951. Interesting that the tops of her 5-in mount are not painted deck blue.


About 1953 ... no 20-mm guns and she doesn't have a covering over the navigation bridge yet.


Not sure on the date for this photo, later in the 1950's, she still has K-Guns, updated ECM suite, and has a cover over the Navigation Bridge ... about 1955-57?

[Cliffy B]

Perfect! That clears up everything. Thanks again Rick

[proflooney]

well i got my bath drawings cd in yesterday. started working on entering the TOO into an excell spreadsheet. Man am I a glutten for punishment. just the waterlines 210 stations and a total of 30 numbers per station to enter lol (feet, inches,8ths) I got as far as station 61 today or 1800 entries. I still have the buttocks to go and then figure out what the diagonals are used for.

will take a while but when done I should be able to just enter the bales into solidworks and get a really nice lofted hull.

Joe

[LAE519]

Hi Guys,

Quick question. I have a friend who has a Toms' Fletcher Square Bridge & Anti Air Converson Set TC3504. This includes mixed media resin & white metal parts along with PE frets FLETCHER 3508, a small AA fret & TOMS SET 3505 US Radars WW2.

Any idea what this might be worth, and is anyone interested in picking it up? I can't find a price for this set anywhere



Larry

[Rick E Davis]

A good question. I can't even remember what the set was going for when it was available prior to being discontinued. I don't know if anyone has even offered it on E-Bay. If you have the "Set number", Conversion Set, you could try typing it into Google and see what comes up. Tom's discontinued the set when the Trumpeter "THE SULLIVANS" 1/350 scale kit came out. So I don't know how much it is worth ... more or less than when brand-new?

[LAE519]

A good question. I can't even remember what the set was going for when it was available prior to being discontinued. I don't know if anyone has even offered it on E-Bay. If you have the "Set number", Conversion Set, you could try typing it into Google and see what comes up. Tom's discontinued the set when the Trumpeter "THE SULLIVANS" 1/350 scale kit came out. So I don't know how much it is worth ... more or less than when brand-new?

Rick,

Thanks for the info, I tried the google thingy, but TC3504 must be a semiconductor of some type.

[amtrac6]

According to Alan Raven's book on Fletcher Class, only the Fletcher, Nicholas and O'Bannon were equipped with the 1.1" AA mount. On an earlier thread in this forum concerning the USN Mk 49 Fire Control Director, Rick Davis and states that the first Fletchers produced by BIW were wired to accept the Mk 45 or Mk 49 directors, but due to weight and other considerations were never installed, and that the Mk 51 was used. I have been unable to find a photo of any of the above mentioned ships that show a director mounted in the elevated tub on the aft superstructure. The tub appears either empty, or in one photo of Nicholas (I think), there is something there but it doesn't look robust enough to be a Mk 51. It looks to me to more akin to a sky lookout chair. Is it possible that what I saw was actually a Mk 51? Can anyone direct me to a photo that more clearly shows any kind of director associated with a 1.1" mount before they were replaced by the Bofors? Having served in the Marine Corps, my preference would be to build the O'Bannon and get it right, but I hate the thought of leaving that cool elevated tub empty so would be happy to do Fletcher or Nicholas.

Thanks in advance to any and all who can help.

[Rick E Davis]

1. Alan Raven's book is wrong as in Friedman's book. The FLETCHER never had a quad 1.1-in mount installed (at least while operational). She was delivered without any "medium" size AA gun in the elevated tub, and New York Navy Yard installed the twin 40-mm mount in that location in short order on FLETCHER. The fantail twin 40-mm mount was installed by New York Navy Yard the last week in August 1942. The three FLETCHERS with quad 1.1-in mounts were NICHOLAS, O'BANNON, and CHEVALIER ... the first three FLETCHERS built and delivered by Bath Iron Works.

2. All three of the quad 1.1-in mount equipped FLETCHERS ... NICHOLAS, O'BANNON, and CHEVALIER ... did not initially have a fire control director. They depended on local control at the mount. The ships were wired for MK 44 (NOT Mk 45!!! the big brother of the Mk 49 director) and the intended Mk 49 directors. Neither of these directors were installed. Mk 44 directors had very limited capability, not much better than local control, with only about four dozen units being built. CHEVALIER had a Mk 51 director installed before going to North Africa in late October 1942 (I have posted several images of CHEVALIER on 24 October 1942 with it canvas covered). CHEVALIER's CO insisted on it. NICHOLAS (departed East Coast on 28 August 1942) and O'BANNON (departed East Coast on 4 September 1942) appear to have left for the South Pacific without a director installed for the quad 1.1-in mount. At that time those two departed for the South Pacific Mk 51 directors were in short supply and many higher priority ships were getting them. In October 1942, at the time CHEVALIER got hers, the Atlantic BENSON-GLEAVES units with quad 1.1-in mounts started to have Mk 51 directors installed to control their quad 1.1-in mounts prior to the North Africa campaign. However, NICHOLAS and O'BANNON each had one Mk 51 director installed locally ... the wiring was capable ... at some point before January 1943. I have not found any records as to specifically WHEN. The Mk 51 directors were normally covered with a canvas cover if not in immediate use. Mk 49 directors fell behind in development and the first destroyer install was in October 1942.

3. Photo of O'BANNON on 20 June 1943 (at least that is the date on the NARA caption) with a Mk 51 installed.



4. Photo of NICHOLAS on 15 August 1943 (at least that is the date on the NARA caption) with a Mk 51 installed.



5. Photo of NICHOLAS on 7 July 1943 (at least that is the date on the NARA caption) with a Mk 51 installed.



5. In addition to the Mk 51 being added, CHEVALIER had an elevated platform for a 20-mm installed before the bridge prior to going to the South Pacific (departed Boston on 17 December 1942) making seven 20-mm guns for her. NICHOLAS and O'BANNON departed with six 20-mm guns. While in the South Pacific all three had three 20-mm guns added to the fantail without a full bulwark around them (I have posted an image or two of NICHOLAS showing these guns) and one added atop the pilothouse. These were added starting in early November 1942 and were all in place by early January 1943 (likely in place by sometime in December 1942). This gave a total of ten 20-mm guns for NICHOLAS and O'BANNON and eleven 20-mm guns for CHEVALIER.

6. NICHOLAS, O'BANNON, and CHEVALIER (right up to her loss in October 1943) had the quad 1.1-in mount until they were upgraded to the standard five twin 40-mm configuration in December 1943.

[proflooney]

well i been having fun the last couple weeks. I am taking the table of offsets from the bath reels and getting them into cad. my first milestone was reached tonight when i got the 210 frames all lofted up in my cad prog. I stuill have stuff like the keel and main deck to go before I can get a nice looking hull but so far its pretty good and the numbers on the TOO came out pretty good. I have it drawn up to full scale in solidworks and as soon as I get the knuckle, keel and main deck tables lofted up ill post some pics

Joe