Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
The two photos you just posted of the Kimberly and the Hazelwood are truly awesome. The details in these pictures are better than the ones in the book, USS Kidd On Deck by David Doyle that I just bought yesterday at the hobby shop. The book has 80 pages of very detailed photos of the Kidd in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, but the book doesn't have anything that comes close to the two photos you just posted. After buying the book I can see why the Kidd's web site doesn't have a lot more photos of her online. They want to sell more books and I really can't blame them; it costs a lot of money to keep her maintained and looking good.

I wish I lived closer I would walk the decks of the Kidd and take the pictures that are missing from the book I just bought. It seems like you could probably buy every book available on the Fletcher Class and still not find the images you�re looking for.

I plan to go to Boston sometime this summer and see the USS Cassin Young DD-793. I know that she is in one of the FRAM upgrades, but they have put a quad 40mm and one quint torpedo launcher on her from WWII for guys like us to see. I don't know if I will ever get to see the Kidd in person and the Cassin Young may be the only Fletcher I ever get to step foot on.

Thanks Again
Roger DD-555/DD-473

[snaphappy321]

Hi Everyone,
After my last post I took a quick look for photos of DD-793 and found some nice ones at http://ww2db.com/photo.php?source=all&c ... ype_id=231. From what I see she still looks fairly close to what she looked like during WWII. During my planned visit this summer I'll get lots of nice detailed pictures of her. This is one of the photos at the site I found, "View of antenna of USS Cassin Young immediately after her overhaul at Boston Naval Shipyard, Massachusetts, United States, 1 Oct, 1958."

Before I go to see her, I'll let everyone know and I'll try to take some photos by request and post them here on the forum. I wish someone could do this on the Kidd. I would ask for a couple photos like Rick just posted a couple days ago!!!!!!!!

Thanks
Roger DD-555/DD-473

[Rick E Davis]

CASSIN YOUNG wasn't a FRAM unit. Actually only three FLETCHERS received FRAM upgrades ... three of the two gun DDE conversions ... RADFORD, JENKINS and NICHOLAS. CASSIN YOUNG ended WWII with five twin 40-mm mounts. She was modified to the 5-Gun mod in the early 1950s and that was about her only major change other that adding ASW torpedo launchers and radars.

From the limited records I have found, the USN removed CASSIN YOUNG's 40-mm guns when they mothballed her in 1960. I'm not sure, but I think the TT mount was left on board. The SPS 28 radar and the "Step-Tripod" for that radar was installed in 1957. I have some photos of CASSIN YOUNG that I took on a couple of previous trips ... I never got around to scanning any of those. I also took photos of THE SULLIVANS ... not sure where those are? Sometime I need to travel and see KIDD.

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
Have you seen the new book USS Kidd On Deck by David Doyle? The book is published by Squadron and it has eighty pages packed with photos. Like I previously mentioned the book doesn't have photos looking down on both of the quad 40mm's like the ones you posted. It is a very good book well worth the money. I just bought it at the bobby shop for $18 dollars and I also just bought Fletcher-Class Destroyers by Alan Raven at Amazon used in very good condition for $13.45 and $4 dollars shipping. I checked back yesterday, they still have some, but the same book in the same condition was selling for $49.50 I got mine at just the right time!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger DD-555/DD473

[Rick E Davis]

I have not seen Doyle's book on USS KIDD yet. I likely will get it. I have so many books I have gotten since the mid-1960s, that I only get ones that have new info to add to my library.

The group preserving and taking care of USS KIDD are doing something a little different than other groups. They are trying to retrofit her to the August 1945 configuration. USS KIDD was active post-WWII during the Korean War mobilization and underwent modernization with other FLETCHERS of the period. She was decommissioned in June 1964 after serving as a NRT unit. She was one of the few to retain the pole foremast and remained a 5-Gun unit during the 1950s-60s, which makes their work somewhat easier. They had to hunt for some items like 40-mm mounts and the quint torpedo mount came from another mothballed destroyer since KIDD's were removed in the early 1960s. KIDD's 20-mm guns and other items were removed as well, so they are adding weapons and backdating sensors where they can.

I have Raven's book already ... got it when it was originally published (USNI version 1986). That was a good price, I think cheaper than what I paid many years ago.

[Geno the Viking]

The Kidd is without a doubt the most impressive museum ship that I have ever seen. It's so period authentic and in great condition. Even the pots and pans in the kitchen are all there.

When I visited her a couple of years ago, I took hundreds of photos.

[les]

I have seen Doyle's book. It's a great walk around of the Kidd. I would say it's a "must have" for anyone doing a Fletcher model.

By the way, I talked to Tim NesSmith who was injured awhile back when a round blew on the forward mount. He is doing well and hopes to be home this coming week. He lost three fingers on his right hand. Luckily he is left handed. Hopefully he'll be back on the Kidd in the fall.

[Rick E Davis]

I have Doyle's book as well now. It is an excellent book for detailing the KIDD as she appears today. Many items are common on all WWII FLETCHERS ... but not everything for all FLETCHERS for every period during the war. Remember that KIDD is being back-fitted from her 1964 configuration to her AUGUST 1945 appearance upon completion of the Anti-Kamikaze mod. Not even all FLETCHERS modified to the Anti-Kamikaze configuration were the same. There were a lot of mods done to KIDD during the 1950s. In some ways it is a work in progress. It is always best if you wish to accurately model a particular ship, to find images of that ship during or near the period you wish to model her.

Having said that, other than the KIDD restoration team didn't get the fantail 20-mm bulwark and ready use ammo box installation right, they have done a great job and there are many onboard details that would be difficult to find in any other photos. David Doyle did a great job documenting USS KIDD's current configuration.

Here are views of the fantail for a couple of other FLETCHERS modified to the Anti-Kamikaze mod at about the same time as KIDD at Hunters Point Navy Yard ... DORTCH (DD-670) and COTTEN (DD-669). These are better illustrations of the installation than the KIDD views I have, but appear to be the same in shape and layout. Comparing these views with the photos in the book will show what is wrong.

[Travis F]

Rick,

What is the object in the left most circle in the second photo you posted above? Is that part of the smoke system? Did the KIDD have this object in August 1945 after her repair and refit?

Thanks,

Travis

[Rick E Davis]

It is a vent ... it could be for the below deck smoke generating system, I'm not quite sure. I'm pretty sure the opening was directed away from the smoke generating jet to keep smoke from being sucked inside the ship. Yes KIDD would have had this system installed (it was installed during her January-February 1945 overhaul) until it was removed during the mid-1950s. I don't know where they could find one of these systems today to install. Best they could do is install a mock-up version. The USN started to retrofit this smoke system in late 1944 in place of the tanks system.

Here is a view of KIDD's fantail as completed on 8 February 1945. This was when she was updated from the 6-40mm configuration to the 10-40mm configuration.



Here is a Booklet of General Plans view of a late WWII smoke generator installation.

[Brad Isherwood]

An outstanding response: thank you very much, and well worth waiting for!

The colour is a shame but yes, I'll fudge it and paint her faded. I've never been one for finishing models in pristine, fresh-out-of-the-works condition anyway.

The color scheme Rick mentions for Willie D and others which saw Atlantic tasking really worked well.
Tin Cans moving against the horizon,...even disappearing in the troughs,
gave them an advantage vs the U Boats which knew they had to cross the Black Pit to reach Northern approaches/England.
DD 520 ran convoy's,escorted Winston Churchill to Halifax in 43,...and the Northern opps with Home fleet out of Scapa Flow.
Crossing the Black Pit with little air coverage back in 43,.....the Tins can are running as fast as they can.
Willie D was transfered to Des Ron 49 for late 1943 in the Pacific....retaining her Atlantic colors.
On Jan 15th Willie D,DD 520 and cruiser Detroit were detached to Pearl Harbor from the Aleutians,
[Kiska..if my war diary record is correct]
on the 25th..the Diary has DD 520 and Willie D in drydock getting scrapped down by the crews.
520 is painted Blue.....Porter is painted in white/black camo.
In late summer 44,....520 was repainted for a 3rd time to camo,....I'm not sure if Willie D was repainted at this time before the Palau/Peleliu operations prior to Philippines campaign.

Ron Surels account of Des Ron 49 and USS Luce's history gives a unique account of the Aleutians campaign
USS Luce's crew got ripped on Raisin Jack during New Years eve at Dutch Harbor,
someone pulled the ships horn while the crew were dancing Conga line.
Ashore...senior staff were at functions.
All hell broke loose.....party's became people racing to general quarters thinking an attack was occurring.
USS Luce was kicked out of Dutch Harbor and made to patrol outside.
so ya....Willie D had competition for trouble maker can : )

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the really awesome photos of the fantail bulwark modifications. I know what your saying about the Kidd not being quite correct. Having original photos really is the best way to build any of the Fletcher's or any ship from WWII. Then nothing was done the same at the shipyards that preformed modifications, they were more concerned to get the ships back in the fight.

Thanks Again,
Roger DD-473/DD-555

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
I have a couple of questions to ask and I think I know the answers to them, but I'm posting them on the main Fletcher page so everyone can benefit from them not just myself.

As you know I have started to build the USS Bennett DD-473. She is a round bridge Fletcher and was laid down at the Boston Navy Yard on 12-10-1941. You are familiar with the free set of deck plans of the USS Sigsbee DD-502 also a round bridge Fletcher. She was laid down at Federal Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Co on 6-22-1942.

My first question is: would the Sigsbee's deck plans be accurate to use for the Bennett that was started about nine months before the Sigsbee was laid down in New Jersey?

Second, I know many modifications were performed on the Fletcher's during WWII, but did the deck structures change very much or did they remain some what standard for the 175 Fletcher's built? I'm not asking about the round to square bridge changes they are very obvious. I'm more interested in the basic structures and the shape of the 01 deck or deck houses as some people refer to them as.

Thanks
Roger DD-473/DD-555

[Rick E Davis]

In general the superstructure deckhouse layout ... exteriorly ... was the same on all the Original "Round" Bridge FLETCHERS. Basically all the upgrades done to these FLETCHERS were "add-ons" to the existing deckhouses or relocations of armament items. (aka the waist twin 40-mm mounts or things like location and capacity of the depth charge tracks) The Revised Open "Square" Bridge FLETCHERS changed the deckhouse layout in small ways. The 01 deckhouse deck shapes did change or varied from ship-to-ship for a number of reasons.

There will be some differences between SIGSBEE (a Federal-built) and the other Original Bridge FLETCHERS built at other yards (BENNETT being built at Boston Navy Yard). The styles in fabrication of the waist twin 40-mm platforms and the bulwarks The biggest difference is that SIGSBEE is unique in having a walkway from the back of the bridge area up to the searchlight platform. I know of no other FLETCHER to have this walkway. SIGSBEE got this walkway after her upgrade to the six 40-mm configuration, but not during that upgrade. I think it was added during her yard period just prior to heading for the Pacific. Only a few mods were done during that yard availability, mostly it was a fix and repair period.

I don't have Booklet of General Plans (BGP) for BENNETT from NARA, but I do have them for one of her Boston-built sisters, DD-475 HUDSON from 1954 after her forward TT bank was removed.




Compare HUDSON to SIGSBEE's plan (at ... http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/dd502.pdf ...) and to DD-501 SCHROEDER BGP that dates from 1943 below and you can see some differences between these two sisters. SIGSBEE's plans show her after her late 1944 overhaul and before her kamikaze damage and repair to the Anti-Kamikaze mod.



You are building BENNETT in her Anti-Kamikaze mod configuration, so the layouts will be different from the plans above that don't have the quad 40-mm mounts. Below is a main deck view of DD-448 La VALLETTE. This view isn't of the 01 deck level as the above views, but shows to a better degree the main deck layout below the 01 deck level (which is shown as a dashed outline). Study photos if possible.

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the blueprint photos. The deck structure set I purchased has a few mistakes and I'm trying to make changes to them before I assemble them. So I will follow the Sigsbee plans, but I will use the clip from the Hudson to make sure the quad placement is correct.

Thank you very much for your help in this matter I really appreciate it.

Roger DD-473/DD-555

[snaphappy321]

Hi Everyone,
On this day June 6, 2012 the 68th Anniversary of D-Day and the 70th Anniversary of the battle of Midway I would like to personally thank the members of the United States Armed Forces and our Allies who served with no regard of their own life�s and personal safety fought to keep the world free of ternary.

I am proud to be a member of this fine group of modelers whom build the ships of our Navy�s as an honor and remembrance of their service to the United States and countries of the free world.

Roger DD-555/DD-473

[snaphappy321]

Hi Everyone,
This father�s day I was very excited to have been able to spend the day alone with my 78 year young father. We went to the Charlestown Navy Yard in Boston MA. For those of you who are following my build of the Bennett DD-473 you know that my dad�s father Lawrence worked there during WWII when it was called the Boston Navy Yard (BNY).
As we passed through the main gate my father told me a story when he was a young boy. He told me that his father brought him to the BNY at the end of WWII to return the tools he was issued while he was working there. He gave my dad a tour of the place showing him the buildings, dry-docks and other places he worked in during the war.
Later when my father was in school he remembered that he went in to see the USS Constitution on a class trip. Since then my father hasn�t visited the place until I brought him just a couple days ago.

We got there a little later than I expected, but we were able to catch the last guided tour of the USS Cassin Young DD-793. If you are not in the guided tour you�re not able to see the bridge or go below decks you�re limited to the main deck only. I lived up to my screen name �snaphappy� this past Sunday when I took almost four hundred photos between the Cassin Young and the Constitution. If I only took three pictures during our trip, these are my most favorite of them all. First, my Dad at the helm of the USS Cassin Young,

then I got a nice picture of him standing amidships on the port side after the tour finished.

Then we went aboard the USS Constitution and my dad took over the controls.

After departing the ship yard I took my father out to eat at All American Joe�s in Braintree. We had a great day in Boston and I will always remember our trip and the first time the both of us walked the decks of a Fletcher Class Destroyer together.

Roger DD-473/DD-555

[jeroen zuiderduin]

Roger, a very nice guesture and I'm sure you had a great time. Nice pictures too. The day before Father's Day, me and my twin brother - who lives in Norway but was visiting - went to the war museum in Overloon. We have been there a lot when we were kids, last time around 1985. Like all our other visites, we hardly took any pictures, too busy looking and talking. Guess we are no photographers.

Cheers
Jeroen

[snaphappy321]

Hi Rick,
As you can see, I went to Boston to see the Cassin Young with my Dad on father�s day. I was surprised to see her still in dry dock. She went in the dry dock back in 2010 and had some repairs done and I thought she was back in the water after that.

I bought a book at the USS Constitution museum USS Cassin Young A Fletcher Class Destroyer by J. Scott Harmon on page 26 it states that: �Ultrasonic testing revealed that her hull had deteriorated more than originally anticipated. More expensive repairs will be required to make the ship seaworthy in order to remove it from the dry dock. National Park Service officials have been meeting with officials from the United states Navy to discuss a solution that will enable the park service to retain the ship on loan and on display in the Charlestown Navy Yard while meeting the shared goal of having Dry Dock 1 available for use by the USS Constitution in 2015.�

The Cassin Young�s hull is all painted after the first repairs were completed and she looks great resting in the dry dock.

I would have never known that she needed more repairs if I had not bought the book. I was very happy that she can be toured while in dry dock. I took a lot of pictures, but I didn�t have enough time to walk the main deck because after the last guided tour we only had fifteen minutes before the ship closed for the day. As I previously posted, I will never forget this past father�s day and the time with my 78 year old father walking the decks of a Fletcher Class Destroyer together.

Roger DD-555/DD-473

[snaphappy321]

I know the Cassin young received her quad 40mm guns as a modification after WWII. My question is, the two photos I posted of the aft stack showing the single torpepo director, would the Fletchers modified during WWII be similar to the Cassin Young with the 1 torpedo director?

Thanks Roger DD-555/DD-473