The Ship Model Forum

I'm wanting to build the Dragon Independence kit as a pre October 1944 Cabot for a friend whose Grandfather was a TBF pilot on the ship during that time. Should I use the Independence kit as a starting point or am I better off using the Princeton kit? Thanks for any info that can be provided!

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Kevin M.

Princeton kit; the Independence kit is lacking the forward 20mm galleries Cabbot had then.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy - are there any other significant differences I should know about? Or can you suggest any good references where I might find out myself?

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Kevin M.

Cabot's one I have some big gaps on. I have photos in December of 1943, when she reached Pearl, and then again in June of 1945 following overhaul at Hunters Point. She had a repair at Pearl in March of 1944 and repairs at Ulithi in December 1944, before heading back for overhaul at the end of March some time. Those two repair periods I have no information about, so she could have been modified, but she's largely the exact same as Princeton in the December 1943 shots, so 1944 should be pretty similar.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ok Tracy - thanks for your help!

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Kevin M.

3 Questions I'm hoping someone can answer:

1. I'm building a late-war (1945, post-refit) U.S.S. Monterey from the 1/700 Bellau Wood kit. My grandfather served as a aboard the Monterey during her final WWII cruise. The instructions offer several options for the layout of the gun tubs. Which would be correct (or closest to correct) for a 1945 Monterey?

2. Anything else I need to do/change/add for the guns or any other parts, to make the Bellau Wood kit more accurate for a late Monterey?

3. I'd actually like to repeat this build but in 1/350 with the Princeton kit. Does anyone know if anyone makes a of a two-catapult deck for the CVL class? Barring that, how hard would it be to modify the single-catapult deck and add the second catapult?

Oh yeah, and queston 4. I notice the HNSA plans for the Monterey are dated as current to 1950. Would there be any differences in the gun layout between the 1950 and 1945 fits? Would there be any other differences?
Many thanks.

I have no familiarity with the 700th kit, but yes, there were differences between the 1945 and 1950 fits... if you're looking at the ships that weren't modified in mid 1945. Cowpens after May, 1945 should be a good comparison as well. Mainly AA and director upgrades; swapping single 20mms out for twins (reducing the number of mounts in the process) and changing the directors from Mk 51s to a blend of Mk 57 and Mk 63. I don't know of any two-cat wood decks in either scale.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ray D. Bean's photo disc #98 shows a shot of Monterey late war, with radar on the aft most 40mm mounts P&S. The vet who was a loader on the starboard 40mm mount #9 told me that it made for a wild ride, never knew where the mount was going to move. He said that He had to hold on for dear life because it was so fast. I didn't pick this out till after he told me about it.

Bob W

Bob's e-mail tickled my memory a bit; this is one of the few photos CVL I found in the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard files... but it's from (PSNS) Puget Sound Navy Yard following the completion of her overhaul there. I'd completely forgotten I had it... I was looking to see if I had any textual records for Monterey's overhaul from the PSNS files. I do not... just a list of approved alterations. Perhaps this will be of some help for those building late-war CVLs; I sent it on to Navsource as well.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

A couple of quick questions. Were the rectangular recesses on the ships sides between flight deck and main deck covered with a type of steel mesh? If they were, why did Dragon not attempt to replicate that? Is it because the detail would be too fine and not worth the effort?

Not 100% sure what you mean, but I suspect you mean the vent intakes. If so, then yes, they should have a grating over the opening. I don't know why it wasn't put on; I mentioned it when I got the test shot. Time? Cost? The White Ensign PE Set has them, I think.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy, that is exactly what I was referring to. First thought was that they were vents but not knowing too much about this class of carriers, I did'nt want to call them that in my previous post. Thanks again

They're essentially engine and ventilation intakes. Believe me, it was "fun" trying to figure out their pattern and shapes for the interior!

There were a few items that I brought up that they either missed or ran out of time to do... communications is a bit one-way at times, so I never heard for sure why any of them were missed.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I remember reading the discussions on the message boards about the communications between you guys and Dragon. All in all it is a great kit, just wish the seam where the flight deck walls meet the hull was hidden better. Hopefully it won't be too hard fill in.

I found this photo of USS MONTEREY (CVL-26) taken during August 1954 while she was a training carrier. I thought it may help seeing how this area was "put together".

Nice find Rick! We could have used those platform support images when we were doing the CVL-22 kit!

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Dragon's instructions call for a single white dashed line for the Indie during the Rabaul raid. It it really white or should it be 5-O Ocean gray? Tracy??

I've found nothing about deck markings in the archives yet, so it's a little bit of guess work. That's one reason we had different options. I can't find the photos I based that advice on now (dammit), but if I recall correctly it was actually of another ship (Cowpens?) at the same time period.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I am new to this forum, and very much impressed with the knowledge base here. I accident posted this in the general forum, however I feel it belongs here under the Aircraft Carriers section, so please pardon the redundancy.

There is a relatively new book out on the USS Independence - CVL-22.
The new edition is quite comprehensive with 836 pages and roughly 350 photos, approximately 40 maps / charts and diagrams.

First released last year for the CVL-22 Reunion last September in Nashville (with 784 pages), a new file has been uploaded to the printer and approved this week as an "Enhanced Edition". ( Look for "Enhanced Edition" on the cover).

There is a lot of material that should be of help to both the interested model maker, and historian.
The photos show the CVL-22 as she first floated, the torpedo damage off Tarawa, and it's paint and modifications coming out of Hunters Point, as well as after Bikini. This will present a problem for the folks with a new Dragon Model ... trying to decide how finish her 1943, 1944 or 1946?

You can now see the new data on the “Enhanced Edition” of the book on Amazon.com for those interested.
http://www.amazon.com/USS-Independence-CVL-22-John-Lambert/dp/0983886911

ISBN: 978-0-9838869-1-4

Thank you
Best regards
John G. Lambert
CVL22history@conwaycorp.net