The Ship Model Forum

Any deep red or reddish brown should do. I shoot enamels myself, but I'm sure someone will chime in.

Old color film isn't always very accurate, but this may help (note that the red on the hull is much deeper than the red in the bunting):

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-- Scott

Reigels, once again thank you. I'll just go with something that I have on hand that is close to the pics I've seen. And from what I've been reading, the AF red color used on the ships varied from yard to yard so slight differences between ships wasn't unusual.

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A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

FYI -

Merchant Marine commemorative stamps including a Liberty Ship are now available at the Post Office. Get 'em while you can.

These will look great on my Christmas cards this year.




https://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... c=10007870

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-- Scott

A little better photo below: These are Victory Ships, rather than Liberties, but I assume the red for the AF is the same (Calship produced their fair share of Liberties as well!). Again note the hulls are much darker than the red on cranes and fire boxes.

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-- Scott

Hello guys,

I'm looking for a plan of a Victory ship, they seem to be pretty hard to come by... It's for scratchbuilding, general arrangement would be already something, hull plans are of course even better! If someone could lead me to these plans it would be great! (Liberties are a lot more common, so I avoid that )

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The merchant shipyard

Neptune,

Floating Drydock has a 2 sheet 1/96 1/192 plan of APA 152 Latimer (which were Victory conversions). These plans are redrawn by TW and look nice. They include hull lines. Obviously the AKA has many differences from the plain "K" but the "core" is there and there are plenty of pictures online of the museum Victories get "close".

My plans for next year include making two hulls from these plans, one will be an AKA and the other a plain K, in other words I intend to follow my own advice.

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jim

aux viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40896

CV-3 viewtopic.php?t=39515&p=263120#p263120

CV-6 viewtopic.php?t=33201&p=201342#p201342

So I am currently building the Trumpy 1:350 John Brown which I am converting into AK-79 Draco, a crater-class liberty. As I can find only three pictures of this ship I have a question as to armament. According to Navsource, the listing is as follows; one single 5"/38 cal dual purpose gun mount, one single 3"/50 cal dual purpose gun mount, two single 40mm AA gun mounts and six single 20mm AA gun mounts. Does anyone know the layout of the single 40mm's?

Thanks to anyone that might help.

Timm

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Timm Smith
Learn something new about the ship or your job every day. Ignorance is not bliss aboard a warship in wartime. Ignorance could cost the life of yourself, a shipmate, or the loss of the ship.
- Personal Information Booklet CV- 38

Hi Timm-

Tough to tell from the photos, but based on USS Cetus AK-77 they may well have been in the two tubs on the back of the deck house. A lot of the Kaiser / Ricmond built Liberites had these tubs on offset reinforced supports, although I haven't notced the 40mm guns there before. Good question.

These may be of interest:
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0453b
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0445b
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0513b
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0502b
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0504b
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0439b

Hope this helps
--Scott

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-- Scott

I have this picture of Draco's superstructure that I think (? comment ?) shows 20mm guns stored with barrels pointing up. Did any 40mm guns store in this manner?


Timm

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Timm Smith
Learn something new about the ship or your job every day. Ignorance is not bliss aboard a warship in wartime. Ignorance could cost the life of yourself, a shipmate, or the loss of the ship.
- Personal Information Booklet CV- 38

I've seen photos with 40mm's stored vertically, but I'd agree that the photos look as if all 8 tubs had the normal 20mm Oerlikons.

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-- Scott

We have a `Liberty` ship that ran aground in Kent England in 1944, and we dont want.
Its name is the `SS Richard Middleton` look it up !

I did and I don't find Richard, only Arthur and she was sunk while trying to supply Malta.

Question for readers; According to the instructions from Trumpeter for the 1:350 John Brown, the two circled companionways to lower spaces are shown to be mounted on the two aft cargo holds. I have searched on Navsource and could not find pictures of these on WWII era ships. Does anyone know about these things?

Thanks

Timm

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Timm Smith
Learn something new about the ship or your job every day. Ignorance is not bliss aboard a warship in wartime. Ignorance could cost the life of yourself, a shipmate, or the loss of the ship.
- Personal Information Booklet CV- 38

As a former ship loader, MOS 88H, I don't see a purpose for such companionways on a cargo ship. Maybe on a troop ship conversion, but not on a cargo ship. Access to the holds for the crew and stevedors is by vertical ladders which are accessed through the WT doors on the king post bases. To my thinking, the decks are already fouled enough by the gun tubs and the life raft/float racks

I have checked around, like you, on various sites and I don't see them in photos or on line drawings.

While I'm at it, as usual, the manufacturer has the cargo booms in a raised position. The only times they are in the position shown is when the ship is entering or leaving port, having just loaded or unloaded. At sea, the cargo booms are lowered into cradles afixed to the ship. The exception is the centerline jumbo boom which is kept verticle, clamped onto the kingpost. For loading and/or unloading, the cargo booms are set in other positions, which I can help you with if needed.

Hi Timm -

From what I've seen, companionways on hatches of Liberty Ships were fairly common on ships used for trooping, although a much more typical arrangement is to find them on the forward hatches with the aft holds still fitted for cargo.

Keep in mind that the Trumpeter kits are base on how the John Brown and Jeremiah O'Brien look today and have a few minor differences to their wartime appearance.

http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0217a
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B1979a
http://usmaritimecommission.de/pictures.php?code=B0628a

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-- Scott

I suspect, then, that the companionways were added to the museum ship(s) as an accomodation to visitors, in the same way that they have been fitted to museum ship submarines, to allow use of inclined ladders/staircases, rather trhan vertical ladders.

The troop transport conversions actually had larger companionways to accomodate troop access to the berthing installed in the cargo holds.

I'm well on my way to build AK-79 Draco from the 1:350 Trumpy Brown kit.

using a picture from Navsource such as this,


I plan to rig out the booms like in the picture and have LCM's, jeeps and 6x6 trucks on the deck, but I prefer a full hull version so I will show my build on blocks like in a dry dock situation.

Timm

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Timm Smith
Learn something new about the ship or your job every day. Ignorance is not bliss aboard a warship in wartime. Ignorance could cost the life of yourself, a shipmate, or the loss of the ship.
- Personal Information Booklet CV- 38

An interesting Victory ship variation were the eight VC2-S-AP3 Victory ships converted to container ships for Orient Overseas Container Line service:

Rutland Victory, 1020, Oregon Shipbuilding, Portland 1944; converted by Hongkong & Whampoa Dry Dock Co. & renamed Oriental Arrow 1969; renamed Oriental Ace 1972; lost 1976; IMO 5332460
http://www.photoship.co.uk/jalbum%20ships/Old%20Ships%20O/slides/Oriental%20Ace-01.html

Jackson Victory, 1261, Oregon Shipbuilding, Portland 1945; converted by Taikoo Dockyard & Engineering, Hong Kong & renamed Oriental Comet 1969; renamed Oriental Charger 1972; scrapped Kaohsiung 1976; IMO 5332410
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/278693/title/jackson-victory/cat/513

Kelso Victory, 1211, Oregon Shipbuilding, Portland 1945; converted by Hongkong & Whampoa Dry Dock Co. & renamed Oriental Despatcher 1969; renamed Oriental Destiny 1972; scrapped Kaohsiung 1976; IMO 5332379
http://www.photoship.co.uk/jalbum%20ships/Old%20Ships%20O/slides/Oriental%20Destiny-01.html

Saginaw Victory, 1206, Oregon Shipbuilding, Portland 1945; converted by Hongkong & Whampoa Dry Dock Co.& renamed Oriental Express 1969; scrapped Kaohsiung 1976
http://www.photoship.co.uk/jalbum%20ships/Old%20Ships%20O/slides/Oriental%20Express-01.html

El Salvador Victory, 1011, Oregon Shipbuilding, Portland 1945; to Gey-Yung 1966, converted 1970; scrapped Kaohsiung 1977

India Victory, 527, Permanente Metals Corp., Richmond, CA 1944; converted by Hongkong & Whampoa Dry Dock Co. & renamed Oriental Falcon 1971; grounded and lost 1972

Poland Victory, 1003, Oregon Shipbuilding, Portland 1944; to Tsui-Yung 1967, converted 1971; scrapped Kaohsiung 1978
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/226900/title/tsui-yung/cat/513
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/226906/title/tsui-yung/cat/513

Pomona Victory, V27, California Shipbuilding Corporation, Los Angeles 1944; to Hongkong Deligate 1965, converted 1972; collision & scrapped Oakland 1975

A very few Liberty ships were also converted to container ships, all for Alaska Steamship Line. In 1953 ASL began carrying containers on four former Liberty ships modified with deck and hatch cover fittings, the Chena (originally Chief Washakie), Iliamna (Edmond Mallett), Nadina (William G. Lee), and Tonsina (William Hodson 2nd). Two more Liberties were modified in 1959, the Nenana (Felix Riesenberg) and Talkeetna (William Allen White).

In 1964 one more ship was converted for partial container service, the Oduna (Francis A. Retka), while the Nadina and Tonsina were converted to full container ships, the only two Liberties so converted.

Forgot to include two photo links.

The Iliamna in 1957:
http://siarchives.si.edu/wp3/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/SIA2011-0028.jpg

The Nadina after conversion to full container ship in 1964:
http://vilda.alaska.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/cdmg11/id/3748/rec/2