The Ship Model Forum

Edited by Tracy: We had about half a page of the beginning of this thread wiped out accidentally, so apologies for the abrupt start.

One thing I thought to mention tonight while looking over pictures of Tico is that if you *do* raise the doors on a dazzle scheme'd ship, be sure to adjust the paint on that door! It is very clear if one pays attention that the lines don't line up once the door's raised a bit. Kinda a cool little detail to have.

Here's another picture for those making later-war Essex ships. When the extra quad 40mm mounts were added on the aft starboard quarter, clipping rooms were also added where the ammo could be prepared. The exact details tended to vary from ship to ship, so consult your references or be prepared to make an educated guess. But from what I've seen, in most cases one of the roller doors in this area was removed and the clipping room installed outboard of its location. Another was installed aft of the crane, and both are visible as the small white blocks in the below picture:

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

To kind of illustrate what Tracy means by the camo on the doors, take a look at a pic of my Yorktown in progress. The aft roller doors you can see it clearly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v415/ ... rboard.jpg


Thanks for reminding me of those clipping rooms Tracy! I'll need to go back and add those.

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-Abram
ModelWarships Gallery Page
Joslin Models Facebook Page

Tracy,

Might as well take these conversations to the board, maybe someone else can get something out of them, too.

I looked at photos of CV-9 last night, and found that the plans in the Warship's Perspectives book on the Essex class are not totally correct for either as launched, or as she was entering combat in the Pacific in '43. Most notable are photos of the two 2-gun 20mm batteries hanging off of the after flight deck, and the outboard island 20mm galleries (there are galleries in both plans and photos, but numbers don't correspond, still researching).

Question: You've got the Dragon 1/700 CV-9 kit that you plan on doing in her funky experimental camo scheme, pre refit, correct? Any idea yet how close that is to the Trumpeter 1/350th kit? If I have to remove and change 20 mm galleries for a '43 version, I might as well look into building her later so I can do the cool camo scheme. And if the Dragon kit is close then I can pick it up for reference.

Yeah, so much for my OOB build of this kit.

-Devin

Hi there to all Essex fans...
I have a question to you all... How often did Essex ships travelled with the hangar doors CLOSED ???? I noticed they usually had (most of the time) open doors, but did they ever closed them ???...And when ???

Thanks...

My understanding is that they were always open except for heavy weather, and sometimes when they needed to light the hangar deck for maintenance at night. I want to say that they stayed open even during battle, but I can't find anything to verify that.

-Devin

I'd say they were open. Here's two pictures which show them open, one of Yorktown during the Marianas operations, one of Hornet off Okinawa. Since an attack could develop at anytime, and they are open in these pictures, I'd say they kept them open during combat ops.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 238298.jpg
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... k14466.jpg

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Carriers always had problems with heat, and the Essexes were no exception. They had to run the exhaust through the hangar bay to the island, so the metal in that area heated up and radiated out.

So even during times of battle they'd have the doors open. The farther north they went and the cooler it got, the less the doors were opened, They would also be closed at night while work went on to prevent the ship from making a nice target for submarines.

There were also concerns with water build up in the hangar bay, not during storms per se, but during battle damage actions. The fire supression systems inside the hangar were so effective at putting out water quickly that water could build up inside the hangar very rapidly and hurt the stability of the ship.

That's why pretty much every picture you see of a damaged Essex class has a list to it; not because of underwater damage, but because of all of the water they pumped into the hangar bay. Later on the figured out that this was a good way to fight fires; put an intentional list to the ship and wash the fire overboard.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks to all of you, who answered my question...
I guess I´ll have to open my Yorktown hangar doors all the way
By the way, I´m having some difficulty finding out exactly how many 40mm guns (4x) did Yorktown had in the last months of the war, more precisely in June 45, when Airgroup 88 was on board. Some references say 17, others say 16... Any help ???
Thanks...

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Should be 17
* One on the Bow
* One on the forward open 5" gallery (Port side)
* Two immediatedly aft on the old hangar cat platform
* Three between the #2 elevator (port side) and the aft open 5" gallery (port side still)
* Two on the stern
* Two on the starboard side aft, around the rear starboard crane.
* Three on sponsons underneath the island
* Three on the island itself

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

OK, a little update for people. Nautilus models has released wood decks for long-hull Essexes. The Tico kit's is wrong for any time period (see my review if this is news to you) so his decks work to fix this. There is a 1944 short deck and a 1945 regular deck. There is a Korean War era deck in the works as well. Price is the same as the other decks and can be ordered directly via e-mail or phone for now; the website will be updated after Thanksgiving.

He said he's only received one request to do essex decks in 1/700th scale, so if you want this drop him a line so he knows.

Nautilus Web Site

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Ok guys, I have a question; I'm stumped I've looked a books pics and I have yet to find pics of where the 20mm ready service lockers are placed, my guess would be where the mounts are located but no evidence that shows this any help is welcomed. Chad

If you're referring to the ones on the catwalks, it's sort of a two part answer. The clipping rooms were under the flight deck. The actual drums were mounted on the bulkhead behind the mounts on pegs. I do not know if there were 20mm lockers outside of the clipping rooms off the top of my head but I'll check when I get home tonight.

I also don't have a good clear shot of the 20mm drums on the bulkheads, but I have a couple of shots that show them from the side (proving they're there).

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I'm starting work on the Trumpeter Ticonderoga and I've hit a wall with the paravane rig.

Tico and Randolph seem to have had a unique paravane rig with holes under each anchor for the chains. The chains apparently go down under the bow and come up in pipes on the centerline. On the short hulls, and I believe the later long hulls, the pipes come all the way up to the foc'sle. Tico and Randolph seem like they might stop a deck or two down?

If someone knows the answer or even better has pictures that show the rig I'd be very greatfull.

Another question: I'm cutting out the hangar doors on my CV-9 build (thanks for the tip Tracy, it works great), but I have a question about the doors that open out onto the deck edge elevator. My assumption is that during flight quarters, the tracks for the doors would be removed to facilitate aircraft going in and out of the opening. In order for this to happen, the doors have to be rolled all of the way up, totally out of sight, correct? I'm going on the assumption that that is true, but I can't find any photos of that opening anywhere to verify.

Thanks,

Devin

I'm not *quite* sure what you mean by this. If you mean the bulkheads above the deck in the hangar area then no, there was no sheer.



Are you talking about the framework on the side of the ship to support the elevator track?



This is the best shot I have of Ticonderoga, taken Post war (October 1945).



Compare that to this shot of CV-19 Hancock, also taken Post-war (1946)



Looks like there was a slight difference in placement but not deck level to me.



I think I've seen some pictures where maybe only the middle three were opened, but otherwise everything looks like they opened them all the way'; they'd need to do that to get the vertical tracks for the roller doors out of the way anyway.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

yep that is what i'm needing . Chad

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

somewhat are there any top views of them that would be more of a help. Chad

If this doesn't help you're on your own.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Does anybody knows where can I find some Hangar deck pictures ??? Any vessel, any year between 1943/45...
The reason is that although I have some drawings of the hangar deck, I have very few pictures of it, and would like to get some more reference to my project...
Thanks again...

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