Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[hermannsae]

Here are a couple of pics of USS Heermann in 1944 showing the Measure 32/24D paint scheme. Hope they help you a little at least.

Rick, do you have the first picture as High Res, by any chance?

Thanks,

Hermann

[hermannsae]

Sorry, but I do have some more questions. Looks like digging deeper, more questions.

It appears that 1943 the 5" gun housings had the ladder in the back where as in 1944/45 they were on the side.
What might be the reason for that? The door is still at the same location.

[hermannsae]

.. and what might this be?

[Rick E Davis]

Hermann,

1. Yes the cams/stops would be built into the stand. The cutout at the outboard sides of 20-mm gun bulwarks was a common feature made necessary to depress the guns lower. The new tripod stands didn't elevate to allow depressing the guns at those low angles. Experience in the Philippines and elsewhere in late 1944 showed the need to fire at suicide boats and mines close-in to the ship.

2. The image I uploaded to Photobucket is as good as that photo can provide. The original wasn't the best to start with.

3. Moving the ladder on 5-in mounts was a standard modification and I don't know why.

4. The items atop the pilothouse show 12-in search/signal lights and other misc equipment ... Loudspeaker amplifier, chart table, etc.

(Or it could be the robot from "I Robot" ... )

[hermannsae]

Thanks Rick, appreciated!

I like the idea of the robot. Lol!

Do you have the picture as high res picture by any chance? Please see above.

[Rick E Davis]

The Ms 32 dazzle image I posted is as good as I can provide. I scanned that photo early on in my NARA searches and didn't scan the images then at a high res. Also, as I said earlier, the original photo isn't all that great anyway, so a higher res would gain you much. The close-crop views I posted came from that same image and they don't reveal much more.

[hermannsae]

Rick, do you have a plan view (top view) drawing of the searchlight platform (#1 Stuck) & gun director platform (#2 Stuck), by any chance?
Year: 1944, Bethlehem Steel Company, San Francisco, CA (DD459-DD684, or Hull# 5366-5398), assuming the ship yard built the platforms in the same way. I did noticed that the platforms from BIW are different.
Again, I am building the USS Heermann, Hull # 5374, DD532

I do have a side view, but for some reasons, I don't find a plan view of the platforms.
BTW, shouldn't have the USS The Sullivans DD537 the same configuration?
Thanks,

Hermann

[Rick E Davis]

Hermann,

Hopefully the image below of the plan views from sister DD-534 McCORD will help. They are pretty plain even for Booklet of General Plans drawings. Finding surviving WWII era BGP drawings at NARA for FLETCHERS is rare, McCORD is one.

Yes USS THE SULLIVANS (DD-537) should be close to HERMANN (DD-532). But, there are differences, HERMANN had Mk 51 directors near all twin 40-mm mounts and McCORD and THE SULLIVANS had Mk 49 directors installed near the aft three 40-mm mounts. So the bulwarks on the #2 stack director platform may be different. Also, the life raft arrangements are different at least between HERMANN and THE SULLIVANS. HERMANN and McCORD were completed to the six 40-mm configuration and modified post-shakedown to the ten 40-mm configuration. THE SULLIVANS was completed to the ten 40-mm configuration and several refinements were made by then.

[PetrolGator]

I'm looking at using a 1/350 USS The Sullivans kit by Trumpeter for a conversion to the USS Johnston. I've used a few web resources and noted her "as sunk" armament won't be hard... have some twin bofors and better 20mms in the stash.

Am I deluding myself with the ease of this conversion?

[hermannsae]

Rick, that's it!
Thank you very much!

Hermann

[PetrolGator]

Further question: I hear the Trumpy 1/350 The Sullivans gun director is garbage. Recommendation on replacement? Again, I'm looking into a USS Johnston conversion.


Thanks!

[hermannsae]

I am not building in 1/350, but you might find something here:

http://www.larsenal.com/catalogue/index ... d_marque=1

or search for Veteran Models 350 scale WWII Accessories

[Rick E Davis]

Petrol,

The Trumpeter 1/350 scale THE SULLIVANS kit would work as a baseline for USS JOHNSTON (DD-557). THE SULLIVANS and JOHNSTON were built by different builders, but come in pretty close to the same configuration for waist twin 40-mm and single 20-mm gun bulwarks.

The Trumpeter 1/350 scale (but not the 1/700 scale) THE SULLIVANS kit has two options available and the five twin 40-mm and seven single 20-mm guns option is the one needed for JOHNSTON. There are some fixes needed to be accurate. Example is the aft 40-mm tub between 53 and 54 mounts is wrong for the original configurations of either THE SULLIVANS and JOHNSTON. Check variations to life raft locations, etc. The Bethlehem-SF built FLETCHERS had a side "rubbing strake" installed along the side below the waist twin 40-mm mounts. Not seen on JOHNSTON.

LaArsenal makes a NICE update set (KC 350 03) including PE for THE SULLIVANS kit that should give you upgraded parts to replace the Mk 37 director, weapons, and other components. It would save you from having to get some items in one place and others elsewhere. So you don't have to order from overseas, the USA supplier is .... http://www.larsenal-usa.com/ ... Tony Bunch is a good guy to deal with.

[PetrolGator]

Thanks, Rick.

I bought the kit with the GMM set, plus some other add ons ordered from Alliance. I've also got some surplus DML guns off of the Benson-class kits and other parts, but man, that L'Arsenal set is crazy comprehensive....


Edit: The aft tub inaccuracy comes from its overhang port and starboard, correct? THAT looks like a fun fix.

[Rick E Davis]

I have posted images of the "standard" tub shape in this thread before, but here is a smaller drawing version. The original "tub" as built shape was a sort of teardrop shape. You need to look at photos to figure out variations on the director "tower/platform". How the bulwark was or wasn't carried around the forward end of the director platform varies. The tub version Trumpeter included with the kit is the "Mare Island" version that they modified FLETCHERS to, in many cases but not all, when they repaired or modified those units during the war. As far as I can tell, no other yard did this modification to the tub. I think Trumpeter should have provided both versions as part of the kit. They provided different versions of other components, but not this which was the standard shape on about 165 of the 175 FLETCHERS as built. Units completed with the original elevated platform (DD445-451, plus a couple of others) were updated to the ten 40-mm configuration mid-war ... some got the tear-drop tub and some the "D-shaped" Mare Island tub.

[PetrolGator]

That doesn't look TOO hard... I hope...

Thanks, Rick.

Wait. This looks suspiciously like the aft deckhouse on a Buckley-class.... coincidence?

[Rick E Davis]

You will find they are different.

I wouldn't be surprised if the working circle for the 3-in gun and a twin 40-mm mount weren't close or even the same.

Making a new bulwark (or using part of the existing one) shouldn't be too hard ... curving strip stock (thin plastic or brass) with straight sections should get you there.

[PetrolGator]

Yeah........ My early glee at having to simply Frankenstein the two superstructure parts into one unholy chimera ended in failure. I found pictures of the actual shape on another Fletcher last night.

It doesn't look TOO hard, even for a scratch building newb like myself. I'll capture what I WANT to do when I start the build thread here in the next few days/week. I have to finish a review for IPMS before I start another build.

[Jamie Alguire]

Hi guys:
I'm building O'Bannon during Nov 42, trying to figure out if the railings extend around the #2 deck containing the 2 torpedo mounts? Pictures show in port the railings are lowered likely for repair access, but hard to tell if they extend around the entire deck edge surrounding both torpedo mounts? Or if railings extend along both sides of the catwalk leading between stern torpedo mount and #3 5 inch gun platform?
Thx!

[Rick E Davis]

There were remove-able/lower-able railings alongside the aft torpedo tubes on the starboard side and both sides on the forward TT mount. There was no need for rails along the portside or aft of the #2 Torpedo tube mount since the mount extended right to the edge of the deck or overhung the edge. The stanchions could be hinged down during periods when the tubes would be in use (combat, maintenance, etc). In these areas, there was only one line running along the top of the stanchions. The catwalk between 53 mount and #2 TT mount was rigged for rails along both sides, but I'm not sure if the inboard one was always rigged. In forward areas, crews may not always bother with doing everything by the "book".