The Ship Model Forum

MAURICE BECKNER

I spoke to him just now and he is still with us. Still alert and coherent. He was gun captain on gun 1 (R side) on 5" mount 1.

A letter/photos/questions will go to him tomorrow. He was on email but his system crashed.

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FRED BRANYAN

Letter to Maurice Beckner

The letter below will go out tomorrow along with 10 pages of photos with very specific and detailed questions related to the camo scheme.


15 November 2015

Dear Mr. Beckner,

My sincere thanks for speaking with me today. Also my thanks for your service to our country.

My father was on the Hornet CV 8 for its entire time in service. To honor his memory and that of several of his shipmates that I met at reunions of the Mustin-Hornet association several years ago I decided to build 1/350 models of all of the USN ships with Hornet at Santa Cruz. You can see the ones completed so far at http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html if you can get to a computer. Pensacola is in progress and should complete within a few months. Juneau is next. All others except Hornet are complete, however a fellow model builder has agreed to let me have his Santa Cruz Hornet model. The long term plan for these models is to place them in a museum when I am no longer around to bother people. Both the Navy Memorial and the Naval Academy Museum have indicated an interest in my collection.

I have been trying to find port side photos of Juneau for close to 20 years. As you can see from the enclosed photos 2 just showed up on the internet. I have gone to NARA (National Archives) several times trying to find port side photos, no luck. Peter Demonte and I have been in touch by computer email for awhile trying to help each other out with research on your ship and photos of it for the future model.

The enclosed photos have questions below them and the website from which they came if your computer is back in operation. If you want to write answers to them and send them back that is fine. If it is easier to call that is also fine.

If you could also answer the additional questions below for me I would appreciate it.
1. Was the ship ever repainted into a solid color after the color change mentioned in the photos at Argentia on 6/15-16/42?
2. If yes, what color and when?
3. If no, is it safe to assume the ship was still in a paint scheme close to the starboard photo in the enclosed photos taken at NYC in early June 1942 and the light color photo taken by San Juan that you will see shortly, through Santa Cruz and the time the ship was sunk? A scheme with a lot of white and light grey in it other than the dark blue on the lower hull?
4. By any very slim chance do you have any photos of the ship not on the internet, especially port side ones? If yes, I would be most grateful for a copy.
5. I have searched for photos of Juneau at NARA by indexing photo records for not only Juneau but every ship she sailed with, every battle she was part of, every port she entered, and assorted correspondence files. I also searched vs the Panama Canal and contacted their historical society, no luck. I also searched footage files for Santa Cruz for both CV 6 and 8. If you are aware of any other source to search for at NARA that may have involved photos, please let me know.
6. As you will see one of the photos appears to have floater nets/baskets/folded rafts or something similar to them on the deck below mount 3. Whatever they are they do not appear in any other photo of a 1942 Atlanta class ship that I have seen. If that ship is Juneau do you have any idea when these items were installed and what they are if not floater nets or baskets? As indicated on the photo list if the ship was not repainted after Argentia if you have any idea why it is in a solid dark color, assuming it is Juneau, that info would be appreciated. An over/under exposure has been suggested but I am far from being a photo expert. I have seen a theory that it is San Diego however as you know that ship also had a camo scheme on it.
7. I note in the photo of you that Peter sent your ribbons appear to include the Presidential Unit Citation. Did that award have anything to do with the Guadalcanal campaign? I occasionally assist families of USN WWII vets with computing their campaign ribbons. A Hornet vet told me that all USN ships in support of the First Marine Division, which got the PUC, also got it. Assuming he is correct that fact is not reflected in the copy of the awards regulation that I have. Based on other info I received from another Hornet vet I believe he is correct.

I would be happy to reimburse any costs associated with copying photos and mailing this material back. If your email comes back up all of my contact info is below.

I absolutely love the internet story about how you got “kicked off” of the ship. I spent 29 years in the Army and Army National Guard, most of it as a helicopter pilot, and I saw my fair share of idiots of all ranks. Fortunately since aviation is a double volunteer situation their presence was in a much lower proportion than the general army and civilian populations.

My sincere gratitude for taking the time to read this and reviewing the enclosed photos.

Very truly yours,

Fred Branyan

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FRED BRANYAN

I spoke with Mr. Beckner for about 30 minutes today.

Understandably for someone 98.5 years old his memory for details of the ship is not great.

I am assuming some of his non camo commentary will be of some interest to students of the ship, so I am putting that below.

INFO NOT RELATED TO CAMO—
1. He was the last crewman off of the ship. A mail boat took only him to the Argonne. He had with him only the whites he was wearing. All other personal belongings went down with the ship. No other crewman is alive.
2. Rank on the ship was BM2C. He was on it from Jan. 42 until just prior to last mission.
3. He had a good friend near Mount 7 and was near it when CV 8 was hit. They had warning of an airstrike 200 miles out but not of the lead planes that hit CV8. He saw it burning from starboard quarter after initial hits. His exit route from the chow hall took him past Mount 7 which is how he met his friend.
4. George and Albert Sullivan survived the sinking. They were yelling for their brothers and swam to a bunch of bodies looking for them. They did not return.
5. As a member of the deck force he never did painting and did not pay too much attention to color details.

As for camo, suffice to say the photo at http://www.cl54.com/album/details.php?i ... 4dff50b338 is accurate according to him. The photo at http://www.cl54.com/album/details.php?image_id=56 is NOT accurate according to him and at no time was the ship ever in a solid dark color. It was not repainted at all once in the Pacific and was not repainted after Argentia.

Anyone wishing to build a model of Juneau, if you need more info based on my conversation with him, I have a 3 page summary with a few photos in it prepared for that purpose. I will be sending a copy of it to Martin Quinn. If you email me and no response within 2 weeks I am retired and there is a slim chance I am on a long distance vacation. If no response within 4 weeks I suggest you contact Martin.

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FRED BRANYAN

Are the captions to the two photos not reversed?

Sandy

I am assuming you are referring to the 2 photos for which I provided sites in the 11/20 post.

They are NOT reversed.

Mr Beckner was crystal clear the light color photo at Santa Cruz taken by San Juan reflects the appearance of the ship in October-November of 1942. And for the rest of its career after 6/15-16/42. The ship was NOT repainted anywhere after the superstructure paint job was applied at Argentia later in June of 1942 after the photo at this site was taken http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/052/0405202.jpg.

It is beginning to appear that no close range photo of Juneau clearly showing the revised superstructure camo exists. All he could remember was that superstructure/gun mounts were "pale/light grey" and "not a lot of zig zags" were present. Would appear obvious to the common sense brain cells that "not a lot of zig zags"=the presence of some type of camo pattern. He also confirmed the Laffey photos do not represent the camo on the ship superstructure and gun mounts. As far as I am concerned the conversation I had with him confirms the war diary entry for 6/15-16/42 at Argentia and his choice of which San Juan photo is correct rules out any guess the ship was ever repainted into a solid dark color.

He also confirmed the hull was not repainted after the Quincy photos were taken. Therefore safe to assume it was still white/shades of grey/blue thru the date it was sunk.

If you are building a model of the ship, sorry to tell you that he could not tell me whether the superstructure pattern was changed at Argentia or whether the diary colors of "off white/haze grey" were simply applied over the existing pattern shown in the 6/1/42 photos on navsource. For what very little it is worth assuming I find nothing further I am going to build my model using the 5/29/42 and 6/1/42 patterns. I have not yet decided which colors of off white and haze grey to apply to the original haze/ocean grey superstructure pattern. May come down to a roll of dice.

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FRED BRANYAN

Sandy,

Since he didn't answer your question.

Yes it appears that the CAPTIONS below each image belong to the other image. That is since the caption talking about two aircraft low to the water is seen below the other image (juneau2-lg). And vice versa the caption talking about an aircraft high above JUNEAU is below the image (juneau-lg) showing the two aircraft low to the water. A minor error while uploading the images and captions.

It is also possible that one of the images is flipped, photo processed with the negative flipped, since they show JUNEAU going in different directions relative to SAN JUAN. Unless the ships were maneuvering to avoid attacking Japanese aircraft and ended up in this configuration.

Is it possible that the photo with the darker CLAA is San Diego? she certainly carried Ms. 21 by early 1943. Juneau was detached from Hornet's screen in error during the battle (a misread blinker signal intended for aircraft, but read by the cruiser), so perhaps the photo captioner didn't know this? Perhaps he thought one CLAA looked pretty much the others, and unaware of Juneau''s detachment labelled the photo in error?

Just thinking out loud.

Bob

PS. There is a photo out there showing the exact moment Juneau got the blinker message. It popped on the other site's board some years ago. I'll see if I can find it. It may be in the FDD's old Juneau softcover book.

Sandy

Now that I know what captions you are referring to on the San Juan site yes they are obviously by their description reversed.

Apologies I thought you were a model builder interested in the camo.

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FRED BRANYAN

Bob

I emailed the folks who put the 2 Juneau photos on the site to try to find out the source and get more info on them no response. I did not find them at NARA last month.

There is a large cloud over the dark ship which may be the cause of the dark appearance. It could still be San Juan. Without the original photos and any info on them impossible to tell for sure.

If you can re locate the photo of Juneau taken when she got the signal please post it here. I do not recall ever seeing it.

Many thanks.

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FRED BRANYAN

I'll try. It was an aerial shot showing Juneau in the background literally taken at that second. It may be on the backup hard drive. I'll see if i can hook up the old beast tomorrow.

Bob

Today I spoke with 94 year old Ed Lavin who was on the San Diego at Santa Cruz. He tells me he does not remember camo but we agreed I will send him photos of my San Diego model and questions and photos relating to Juneau in case the photos jog his memory.

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FRED BRANYAN

No idea why I did not think to do it before I also just emailed San Diego crewman George Horton to see if he has any memory of Juneau.

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FRED BRANYAN

No response to the email I sent to George Horton. Tried to call him today number is disconnected. I will be sending him snail mail shortly. I last spoke to him about 3 years ago, his health was not good but his memory for details was.

Per net reports the following 3 medics went to San Francisco shortly before Juneau was torpedoed: Orrel G Cecil, Theodore D. Merchant, and William T. Sims. I found a you tube interview of Cecil made in 2010 with an note below it indicating he died after it was made. No luck via google finding any obituary for any of them or by 411 sites finding addresses or contact info for them. An officer presumably older than those 3 also went to SF I will try to find him also.

Maurice Beckner told me he is the last Juneau crewman alive and it appears that he is correct.

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FRED BRANYAN

The medical officer who went with the 3 medics above to San Francisco was Roger W O'Neil, he died in July of 77.

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FRED BRANYAN

I emailed Richard Nowatzki, a Hornet vet, who served in the same gun position as my father.

Anyone who thinks he is senile you might want to visit the following sites:

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015 ... ornet.html
http://abc7news.com/archive/8646651/
http://www.dailyrepublic.com/news/milit ... ttle-raid/

I sent him the photos from the following sites:

http://www.cl54.com/album/details.php?i ... 45bb97d290
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/052/0405202.jpg
http://www.history.navy.mil/our-collect ... a-39-.html
https://crashmacduff.wordpress.com/tag/military-monday/
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/054/0405405.jpg

The email explained that there are conflicting versions of what color Juneau was. I did not disclose my theory that the ship was a light color as in the 6/1/42 NYC photo. I also explained that the purpose of my inquiry was for a future model.

Below is a copy of his return email:

Fred:

My recollection of the Juneau is that she had a very light, almost whitish, coloration when she joined our task force.
What struck me most, and remained in my memory, was the number of 5"38 Caliber gun turrets she carried.
The Battle of Santa Cruz was on 10/26/42 and the Juneau was sunk on 11/13/42, 18 days later. She did not have time to change her camouflage colors.

Rich

We now have testimony from a Juneau crewman and a Hornet crewman that confirms the ship was NOT grey and WAS a very light color, as in the late May/early June 42 NYC photos and the San Juan photo in the first site I sent to Rich. I have letters out to 2 San Diego crewman for the same purpose. I emailed the daughter of another Hornet crewman with the same photos and questions I sent to Rich but have not heard back from her yet.

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FRED BRANYAN

I sent Rich another email to see if he could remember blue paint on the hull of Juneau. I included the sites for the navsource NYC photos.

His response below might be related to what appears to be a much lighter shade of blue on the hull on the port side compared to the starboard side based on the Quincy photo. If the Laffey photos are accurate the blue may have been mostly faded out by the time he saw the ship. That of course is pure speculation on my part.

Fred:

Sorry, I cannot recall seeing the blue paint on the Juneau's hull. When I first noticed her, she was about a thousand yards
off our Starboard side, we were both going in the same direction so I was looking at her Port side.

Rich

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FRED BRANYAN

I sent an email to the daughter of Elmo Wojahn another CV 8 vet who I know via the Mustin Hornet Association.

You can see his WWII story here http://www.mnlegion.org/wojahn-Jan2013.pdf

He reminded me that his duty station was in the hangar deck and he rarely saw ships with CV 8. On the day of the sinking he only saw the DD that picked him up not Juneau. He has no memory of colors for any ship at Santa Cruz.

With the recent death of 2 other Hornet vets I was in touch with there is only one left that I know who might be able to comment on this issue. I will try to contact him next week.

I will try to call the 2 San Diego vets that I have written to next week.

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FRED BRANYAN

Fred - had a bit of an epiphany this morning. Earlier this year we discussed the pink camouflage - have you asked them about pink at all? My memory based on the documents your professional researcher had found was that she had been painted with (at least partially) Pink in June of 1942 at New York, but we weren't able to determine any of the other colors or anything after that.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I did not ask any of them about pink. The 2 who had any memory at all could only remember "light grey"(Juneau vet) and "whitish" (Hornet vet) overall and had little memory for the hull, where the pink most likely would have been located. The Quincy and NYC photos for what b and w are worth seem to suggest white on the bow plus blue along/above the water line plus assorted greys behind the false bow. Needless to say I could be wrong and maybe someone snuck some red into the white or greys. The Juneau vet did remember the blue vaguely but made it clear he could not comment precisely on the hull colors other than light color overall plus the blue. He confirmed the superstructure pattern in the 6/1/42 starboard shot and the Quincy shots but could not recall the details of what happened at Argentia on 6/15-16/42 and had no idea if the superstructure pattern was changed. He was positive the hull was never touched again after NYC with Quincy. Both vets were adamant that the San Juan light color photo at Santa Cruz is consistent with their memory of the ship, and the dark one is not consistent with their memory.

There is one Hornet vet, Earl Miller, who I have not seen since the Mustin Hornet reunion in 2003 in San Diego. Back then he was quite sharp mentally and gave me copies of articles he wrote that never got published about 10/26/42 at Santa Cruz. It was him who told me a Junyo Kate (not from him but Jim Sawruk) was headed right for his--and my father's--5" gun position after dropping a torpedo, pulled up at the last second, and went into the water after clearing the raised port side deck. He saw the pilot on his way in and he was pretty sure he was alive. But for that non kamikaze I would not be here. In any event his memory for details was excellent. I am going to send him a letter to arrive after xmas and ask him to call me. I might add he normally sends me an xmas card which has not yet arrived. Not a good sign. I sent him one and it has not come back yet.

George Maynor, an F4F plane captain also with a good memory for detail and who told me he had parents who lived well into the 90s, and was in great shape last time I spoke to him, also disappeared about a year ago. Perhaps he knew something he did not want to share when he called me about 18 months ago and then sent me a few boxes of model parts and supplies.

George Horton the San Diego vet also has an excellent memory and he also wrote an article about Santa Cruz. I sent him an xmas card a few weeks ago and asked him to contact me. His phone is disco'd and email bounced. No contact back from him yet. Not good signs.

Ed Lavin another San Diego vet went to a USS Slater function and they gave me his phone number. I called him and he suggested I send him a bunch of photos to refresh his memory, which I did. I will call him next week.

The point of the exercise above I had long hoped to find photos/correspondence/diagrams so I would not have to bother these vets. An extremely bad decision on my part. In case any other model builder is in this situation, if you know people who were on the ship, regardless of what time frame is involved, strike now. There were 5 CV 8 vets at the last Mustin Hornet reunion we hosted in 2012 in VA Beach the weekend of Sandy. All of them sharp. I wish I had struck on this topic then. One of them was Elmo Wojahn who I did recently contact.

I hope someone out there will profit from this error.

I am going to NARA either Monday or Tuesday of next week to troll the known cruisers also with Juneau in NYC in May-June of 42. Perhaps more Quincy type photos will show up. Out of total and complete desperation I also sent an email to the RN archives to see if by some miracle they got any warning/descriptions/diagrams from the USN as to the details of the rather unique camo on Juneau in case she got involved or was supposed to get involved with convoy duty. No response yet and unless their records are a whole lot better than what we saw at NARA on a similar search highly unlikely they have anything of value to the project.

So, to try to answer your question, it looks like the pink paint issue will remain in the land of the unknown.
Truly unfortunate that no color photo of Juneau similar to the close range San Juan color photo was taken. I am sorry I do not have better news for you.

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FRED BRANYAN

No xmas cards received from the vets in the post above, all of whom normally send them. I had no luck trying to find obituaries for them on line.

I will send them letters later this week but it appears they are no longer with us.

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FRED BRANYAN