The Ship Model Forum

A news story today in the Albany, NY area on the possible closure of a research nuclear reactor took me down a path that eventually ended up with a question about Liberty Ships.

What is the difference between a C1 and C5 -type Liberty ship? Any discernible difference in hull length or features? The common models of this class in 1:700 are Trumpeter's J. Brown and J. O'Brien - these appear to be C1-type ships.

I've gotten interested in the Liberty ship SS Charles H. Cugle, which according to Wiki is "a Type Z-EC2-S-C5 Liberty ship built by J.A. Jones Construction of Panama City, Florida, launched on 13 August 1945. It was ordered by the War Shipping Administration under Maritime Commission Contract number 3145.

"As part of the Army Nuclear Power Program the ship was transferred to the U.S. Army in March 1963, and fitted with a pressurized water reactor, fuelled by used low enriched uranium, designed by Martin Marietta, becoming the world's first floating nuclear power plant, at a cost of $17 million.

"Now renamed USS Sturgis (MH-1A) the reactor began operation on 24 January 1967 at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, generating 10 MWe of electrical power. The reactor barge was then towed to Gatun Lake in the Panama Canal Zone to provide power, owing to a lack of water for the hydroelectric plant. The ship returned to Fort Belvoir in early 1977, and the reactor deactivated and de-fueled. The ship was decontaminated, sealed, and assigned to the James River Reserve Fleet for an expected 50 years of SAFSTOR."

Are the Trumpeter kits a good start for a build of a C5 hull? Or would PitRoad's Bootes or offerings from L'Arsenal or Loose Cannon better serve? I have not yet researched those kits and ship types.

Here are photos of the former SS Charles Cugle/USS Sturgis:

http://www.armed-guard.com/tls31.jpg

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/energy/graphics/sturgis.jpg

http://media.dma.mil/2013/Oct/11/2000755462/-1/-1/0/131011-A-CE999-100.JPG

http://www.atominfo.ru/newsh/o0730.jpg

Answering my own question: this website notes that the Z-C5 types had the same hull form as the C1s, but larger hatches and heavier loading gear, as they were designed as tank and boxed plane transports: http://drawings.usmaritimecommission.de/drawings_ec2.htm

Just picked up the Pit Road 1/700 AK-121 Sabik.
There is a Measure 32 scheme for Sabik that I may very well use. However, I'm curious about the alternative. The kit box shows deck blue for the horizontals (which checks against other sources) and "dark gray (1)" for the verticals.
Maybe Measure 14, ocean gray with haze gray on the upper yards? And deck blue.
Comments would be appreciated.
TIA

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Harold

I am converting this from the Trumpeter 1/350 Jeremiah O'Brian kit, the Liberty Airplane Transport Frank O Peterson. I have plans from the Smithsonian. The white parts are modification in Evergreen plastic. Since the entire ship will be gray, I can wait to paint until it's almost finished.


The P-38 is to scale. It was a tight fit even for the larger modified hatches.

Looks like you've got Cosmoline on that P-38, Fred

GREAT project, looking really good at this stage. I look forward to seeing the finished product.

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Harold

Thanks. Eventually the planes will be painted dark olive. They were prepped for shipping with what looks like shrink wrap of some kind.

I intended to have the ship with hatches open showing the P-38s inside. When I installed the upper tween decks though, there is no way an assembled P-38 fits in there, even with the outer wings removed. This lead to more research on these ships. I found good info in 'History of Army Air Forces in WWII, Vol 6.' It looks like all the planes were carried in the holds in crates. An average of 42 fighters could be carried this way, as opposed to 56 on an escort carrier in partially assembled condition.
I have not been able to find any pictures of crated P-38s. One person tells me the engine/tail boom assemblies were separate from the center pod. This makes sense. That would just fit length-wise in the hatch opening.
This source also has info on the protective coatings used on aircraft that were carried on deck. In short, early in the war they tried cosmoline. Later they went to a heavy grease that took 200 man hours to remove. Finally they used a plastic coating sort of like a shrink wrap.
Tankers carried a large percentage of fighters on elevated "meccanno" decks above the piping. Bombers and transports were ferried by air. there was a huge loss en route.
Fred

what was paint scheme for 1944 Liberty Ships? We're colors same for horizontal and vertical surfaces?
Did they have a black boot or did they go directly from hull red to gray? Also, guns and hatch colors.

Some were painted boring gray, and some had interesting camo patterns such as this Ms 33 pattern: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineL ... 172893.jpg Starboard side: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/OnlineL ... 172892.jpg I just noticed something interesting about Liberty Ships (might be old news to others!). Liberty Ships have two waterlines - when loaded, the Liberty Ships sat low in the water, but when empty and returning from Britain in convoy, sat much higher in the water, exposing the top of the rudder. Any camoflage pattern was painted right down to the "empty" waterline so they would still be hard to see by U boats. Visit here: https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&site ... ek668n8goU for more pics. Decks seem to have been in Deck Blue, and upper works, fittings and armaments would have matched the surrounding colors. Some ships have bootlines and others don't.

Here are some pics of the water line at the bow and stern on the SS Jeremiah O'Brien.

Also deck AA.

I'm building the Trumpeter 1/350 SS John W. Brown as the S.S. Stephen Hopkins. They should be similar enough - except for the armament - The Hopkins had one 4 inch (102mm) and two 37mm cannon along with six machine guns. As of October 1942 The John W. Brown had one 5 inch (127mm) stern gun, one 3 inch (76.2mm) bow gun, and six Oerlikon 20mm cannon. Since there is a difference in the shape/arrangement of the bridge deck between the Trumpeter kits Jeremiah O'Brien and John W. Brown I must assume (as I did when I bought the John W. Brown kit) that the earlier ship would more closely match the Stephen Hopkins - both the John W. Brown and Stephen Hopkins were launched in 1942. The O'Brien was launched in 1943. I may be wrong about that though since they were built at different yards and may have had different specs?

Anyhow, my question is: Which of the colors that I presently have on hand do you think would most closely resemble the wartime colors of a Liberty Ship? I've read in several places that the weather deck was NOT deck blue but painted the same color as the rest of the ship. I've also read that the Navy specs were not followed (except, perhaps for the Liberty Ships build in England) and that the ship yards went with what was commercial gray paint that was available to them. Here is a piece of evergreen with a brushstroke of each of the three colors to which I referred above:

Mike

Mike,
Glad to see a build of the Stephen Hopkins getting started, I plan to do her in 1/192 using BlueJacket Shipcrafters kit.

Have you found any info about the layout of her armament, specifically the 2 37mm guns? The attached article discusses them but it is still not clear to me how the were layed out. Of interest in the article is an aerial photo of one of her sister ships from the same yard layed down at about the same time, no evidence of the 37mm that I could see plus it looks like she has 8MGs with shields, not sure if they are 50 cals or 20mms.

Here's the article:
http://www.armed-guard.com/hoppy.html

Please post some pix of your build as it comes along.
Thanks
Tim

Though Liberties are not my cup of tea, I met a model-shipwright who is a living encyclopedia for them and would be a great resource for those interested in Greek Liberty ships.

He gave a seminar on underwater weathering that blew me away.

http://www.modelwarships.com/features/how-to/Underwater-Weathering/spstavento.html

Enjoy

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George A. Georgopoulos

Very nice weathering effect! I might want to build something being drydocked as well.

Aop

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On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!

I have a question that has been asked before on this thread which was kindly half answered.

Were any of the civilian Liberties finished in anything other than grey, grey and grey? I.e. other than those taken into US Navy use as the Crater (AK70) Class, is there a prototype for a ship finished in a dazzle pattern such as the plan below?



I have carried out quite a comprehensive search but have been unable to find a prototype. If nothing is forth-coming, I may have to use that reliable old stand-by - modellers license! You know the sort of thing I mean, presenting a test to the navy and saying - "this is an example of the proposed new camouflage finish, what do you think?" etc.

Thanks in anticipation for any replies!

Cheers, Jabb

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HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

Awe inspiring and frightening.

And quite informative as to a lot of questions about ship construction and launching.

MB

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OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Whilst trawling the interweb for videos of amusing kittens, (well, that's what it's for, isn't it?) I came across this site.

http://usnavyresearch.com/Pictures/Obrien/OBRIEN.html

Don't know if anyone was aware of it but great photos for rigging details.

Cheers, Jabb

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HMS Hood, the big one!

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/service/cargo/Victory-350-pm/index.htm

Look, an interesting new 1/350 Victory ship in the gallery today, by Pierre Marchal!

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

My 1/96 liberty from Deans Marine https://i.imgur.com/3zOjLOP.jpg

I have a question on Liberty ship booms as I am currently finishing up a 1/700 Trumpeter.

The booms that are provided with the kit in their cast orientation are rated at 5 tons.
I am reading the Liberty ships also had additional 30 and 50 ton booms.

A 30 ton was mounted on the centerline on the aft of the first mast servicing hold 2, or a refitted
50 ton. A 15 ton centerline servicing hold 4 facing forward, or a refitted 30 ton.
This is for standard liberties not the navalized version.

So my question on the Trumpeter kit, is mast part [url]D22[/url] on the 1/700 kit supposed to represent
the 30 or 50 ton booms handling holds 2 and 4? Or are these just a support part of the mast frame?

I cant seem to come to a conclusion from drawings online. I havent bought a book for one ship but I might
have to.

Thanks,

Paul

She looks great

Scott

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K494 HMCS Arnprior
Royal Canadian Navy