Calling all Scharnhorst and Gneisenau fans!

[RoyMac]

Hello everybody,

@ RoyMac,

you got it right and congratulations for your clever evaluations of the Scharnhorst last camouflage most recent evolution studies.

Not only I have helped Stefan Draminski realizing his wonderful last book on Scharnhorst, but a similar 3D rendering of the Scharnhorst has been made for my ( with R. Gehringer as co-author ) 5th and last book about the Tirpitz.

Obviously we have used the last set of information available from the photos taken on the second half of 1943.

Feel free to ask anything you may need and ... happy modeling.

Bye Antonio

Many thanks Antonio

I will sit down and try to figure out the various colours in the scheme...I'm presuming I cannot scan and repost part of the AoTS book for copyright reasons but would like to describe the scheme elements and check with you that I have the various areas/colours correctly identified

[Ggasson]

Hi, does anyone know how the anchor capstans on Scharnhorst & Gneisenau were painted. I have Kageros drawings in 3D which shows them as black and white stripes. Other sources show red/white green/white as per Bismarck on which
Kagero and Draminski s AOS agree. I would have thought these things would be the same throughout the Kriegsmarine, or maybe they were changed at some time? I've looked at other people's models, but some are one way, some the other.
I would be interested to know how they are in the Scharnhorst AOS.

I think I didn't look hard enough...there is a youtube video of the ship and 10 seconds in shows the capstans in colour . www.schlachtschiff scharnhorst then the video : schlachtsciff Scharnhorst und Gneisenau versenken ....

[pascalemod]

Guys whats the consensus on North Cape Scharnhorst bow anchor - did it have it or did Germans drop these bow anchors by mid war phase?

[tjstoneman]

A quick review of online photos none with the stem anchor after the early war period - it's absent in one taken during Operation Berlin, and I couldn't find one taken later than that where it's present. She certainly hadn't got it fitted in this photo: https://www.historyphotos.org/wp-conten ... 5ennYZppZo

Koop and Schmolke state that it was removed after sea trials (presumably after the so-called Atlantic Bow was fitted) showed that it set up strong vibrations when the bow plunged, and worsened the effects of seas shipped over the bow.

[pascalemod]

A quick review of online photos none with the stem anchor after the early war period - it's absent in one taken during Operation Berlin, and I couldn't find one taken later than that where it's present. She certainly hadn't got it fitted in this photo: https://www.historyphotos.org/wp-conten ... 5ennYZppZo

Koop and Schmolke state that it was removed after sea trials (presumably after the so-called Atlantic Bow was fitted) showed that it set up strong vibrations when the bow plunged, and worsened the effects of seas shipped over the bow.

Thanks, I suspected as much. This helps with one thing that I see on models often not done right.

[pascalemod]

What's the latest on 43 camouflage for Sharnhorst? (North Cape, as sunk).

Leon/Asmussen book ok as a reference?

Or better sources?


Differences are huge by now. Three kits - Flyhawk 700, Dragon 350, Trumpeter 200. All differ in camouflage patterns, camouflage colors, deck painting, and even stuff like width of boot topping (too thin on most?), color on turret tops (yellow? ).

Flyhawk is super different to many. They call for yellow turret tops, and dark grey decks for example (sans maindeck). Leon / Asmussen calls for bluish bow and stern, and tops. Bonomi calls for all grey shades, no blues. Trumpeter has some very blue also but not the one that Asmussen has. Etc. It is a complete mess in my head which one to go with.

I tend to gravitate to Leon as I own the book and research feels thorough, yet Im happy to be convinced Im wrong.

I can clearly see how people were interpreting photographs. Director domes are dark - or there is a roundish grey splotch in that area. The hull forward section black piece always struck me as strange - may be shadow may be really black. Etc etc. Fascinating.

[pascalemod]

go with Bonomi as model companies usually get it wrong.

For me it is Bonomi vs Leon/Asmussen where I am trying to decide. Bonomi is very old now and probably what I posted is not accurate. I wish I knew where to find his newest version to compare to Leon/Asmussen which is most recent for me. Any thoughts?

I wont go with Model companies one of course.

[Timmy C]

You can contact Bonomi via PM: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=471

[pascalemod]

You can contact Bonomi via PM: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=471

Did that, thank you.

[RichardAigner]

"Schlachtschiff Tirpitz, Volume V" by Gehringer & BONOMI, has a 2-page, 3-side view of Scharnhorst's camouflage in Sept. 1943, complete with color-ID. (No page numbers in this book; just before map "230K"). As the book is quite new, that should represent Mr. Bonomi's most recent thoughts on the topic.

[pascalemod]

"Schlachtschiff Tirpitz, Volume V" by Gehringer & BONOMI, has a 2-page, 3-side view of Scharnhorst's camouflage in Sept. 1943, complete with color-ID. (No page numbers in this book; just before map "230K"). As the book is quite new, that should represent Mr. Bonomi's most recent thoughts on the topic.

I do not have plans on buying a Tirpitz book for 2 pages on Scharnorst, this is a bit much.

Do you know what they say about this portion?

Cannot tell from the render, and the book does not mark these things clearly (and it is latest). Could you help on this please if you have the other book?

[Zacharias]

What could be the reason that, after more then a year since new 1/200 Scharnhorst hit the market, there are still no meaningful aftermarket upgrade sets for that long anticipated kit?

Why Pontos, MK1 Design, Eduard and others are firmly ignoring that new Scharnhorst kit?

[pascalemod]

What could be the reason that, after more then a year since new 1/200 Scharnhorst hit the market, there are still no meaningful aftermarket upgrade sets for that long anticipated kit?

Why Pontos, MK1 Design, Eduard and others are firmly ignoring that new Scharnhorst kit?

Corona and supply chain issues focused them on selling existing easier to make things? I dunno...

[Kevin Dekker]

An oldie but a potential goodie?

Airfix 1:600 Scharnhorst modified to 1940 configuration.

After doing battle with the Airfix Bismarck in 1:600 which was pretty bad and took a lot of major surgery to get anywhere near accurate, the accompanying 1:600 Scharnhorst model, while still lacking detail, was overall surprisingly accurate in terms of shape and proportions.

I got this model already made up OOB but very badly assembled. Broke it down, cleaned it up, added detail and PE and reassembled. It got an Atlantic bow, bilge keels that were not on the original kit, hull degausing cable, enclosed bridge, scratch built 4.1 inch and 37 mm mounts, extended aircraft hangar, and new main mast. I used parts from a sacrificial Airfix 1:600 Bismarck, but the Arado 196 supplied with it was so bad that in the end I modified the HE114 supplied with the Scharnhorst into a passable Arado 196.

T'was a fun project for a beginner, and I liked the eventual result:

[pascalemod]

Was the plane hangar doors / roof in North Cape scenario painted white/grey, or dark grey as all horizontal surfaces should be?

There is also a catapult on top of the Hangar (or near) - was that white / grey from sides or rather dark grey? Hard to imagine them painting it white, but then again, this is camouflage, so all is possible.

Stuck on that in the build...

[Mr. Church]

Was the plane hangar doors / roof in North Cape scenario painted white/grey, or dark grey as all horizontal surfaces should be?

There is also a catapult on top of the Hangar (or near) - was that white / grey from sides or rather dark grey? Hard to imagine them painting it white, but then again, this is camouflage, so all is possible.

Stuck on that in the build...

I'm not sure it is definitively known?

Even the drawing of her in the Gehringer & Bonomi Tirpitz book has a footnote that not all parts of the superstructure camouflage pattern are verifiable by photos. So I'd say you have some leeway in this regard and it will likely be difficult for anyone to prove you wrong whatever colour scheme you do ultimately choose?

The hangar roof is definitely a tricky one as it is obscured by the row of liferafts in any photos taken from ground or sea level. And I don't know of any quality closeup aerial photos of Scharnhorst from when she wore that camouflage scheme.

[Zacharias]

What the hell is going on?
After almost year and a half (November 2020.) after release of a new Trumpeter 1/200 Scharnhorst, there are still absolutely no PE sets for that long anticipated kit of famous German WW2 warship?
In the previous years various PE manufacturers were releasing PE sets on a monthly basis for various subjects, many of which were/are not even close to popularity of famous Scharnhorst!?
So, what am I missing here, why there is such a silence from PE manufacturers, why are they completely ignoring release of 1/200 Scharnhorst?

[Madhatter]

Hey everyone
Does anyone know if there is a paint mask set for the 1943 camouflage? I don't particularly want the Peddinghause decal set as I'd prefer to paint it on. Was a mask set ever made?

[SeanF]

Hey everyone
Does anyone know if there is a paint mask set for the 1943 camouflage? I don't particularly want the Peddinghause decal set as I'd prefer to paint it on. Was a mask set ever made?

Yes, Gatormasks made one... but I had a very hard time using it. They're vinyl, and I found them popping up everywhere, only staying adhered on the smoothest surfaces. They also seem to have been made from a 2-dimensional drawing with no compensation made for the curvature of the hull - each piece of the masking vinyl served more as a local guide for where to put the strips of Tamiya tape to fill-out the mask patch's area and actually seal the edges. I guess I saved a little bit of time over cutting and fitting everything myself... but compared to how much effort I thought I'd save... I wouldn't do it again.

(If someone knows the trick to using vinyl masks, please tell me. It's possible that they are great, and I'm just not using them right.)

- Sean F.

[Madhatter]

Thats great, thanks Sean! I'll go check them out. If anything, maybe they can be used as a template to transfer them to normal tape.
Where do you get them from, or more over, are they still in existence?