1/144 Scale USS STODDARD (DD-566) - Kitbash, Revell FLETCHER

[BB62vet]

OK, so here is a design picture of the complete forward tripod mast and components, although I've got to compare my 1968 BoGP and a few photos I have from the same time period to make sure I haven't left something off -

Willie, I hope this is what you were expecting; at the present time it's all I can provide

The entire unit is 3D designed/printed - that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

Modeling the post WWII conversions and improvements can be quite complex as there were many experimental programs and one off constructions. Perhaps some of the small deck clutter such as K guns and 20 mm Orlikons went by the way but the sensors expanded exponentially. Radar antenna can be especially challenging as are the multitude of platforms and other antenna. So good job in bringing all these elements together. This should add a lot to producing a convincing model of Stoddard when you were aboard.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Hank:
Modeling the post WWII conversions and improvements can be quite complex as there were many experimental programs and one off constructions. Perhaps some of the small deck clutter such as K guns and 20 mm Orlikons went by the way but the sensors expanded exponentially. Radar antenna can be especially challenging as are the multitude of platforms and other antenna. So good job in bringing all these elements together. This should add a lot to producing a convincing model of Stoddard when you were aboard. Cheers: Tom

Thanks, Tom!!! Yes, these small details are still coming to light as I pore over a few photos I had taken back then. With your design/printing of the DMS depth charges/racks I've found that this will be a small mini-project for me as well - I thought the purchased 3D parts for the depth charge rack would suffice but after closer inspection I realized that this part is incorrect - too many frames although the size is correct. In addition, the kit supplied DC rack is incorrect for this era (1960s) so those parts won't be used.

So, with your DMS rack as a start, I began working on creating a rack that resembles the one on STODDARD. Luckily, I have a couple photos of this rack, although none showing the inside view of the rack which includes the release mechanism - so, I'm sort of relying on the Mk. 9 rack illustrations from a U.S. Naval manual and photos from THE SULLIVANS of her rack. At this point I have this unit almost ready to print -

There is a depth charge in the rack, I have it turned off as my first print will be the rack empty, and a second version with the rack loaded. Here's a picture of the Mk. 9 depth charge as modified from your version -

I have to add the end of rack overhang supports to the last frame feet and then add & position the depth charges; maybe get done sometime today/tonight.

Note: There are a few items that I added that are unique to the rack on STODDARD that may or may not have been on other ships racks. These items are based on my own photos of the rack, so I know they existed.

Hank

[BB62vet]

And here the DC rack is completed with 11 Mk. 9 Depth Charges -

I will attempt a print of both versions (empty/full) along with a few other items and see what happens!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

I think the depth charges need to be turned around such that the setting mechanism is facing inboard? Stoddard's single rack was located on the starboard side? For the DMS I designed the Port track and mirrored it in Chitubox for the starboard unit. Anyway check the orientation if you have Stoddard photos with the track loaded. I had to reverse all the charges on my K gun rack!

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Hank:
I think the depth charges need to be turned around such that the setting mechanism is facing inboard? Stoddard's single rack was located on the starboard side? For the DMS I designed the Port track and mirrored it in Chitubox for the starboard unit. Anyway check the orientation if you have Stoddard photos with the track loaded. I had to reverse all the charges on my K gun rack!
Cheers: Tom

Wah Hail!!! You are right!!! I had left the one DC from your original design in place and forgot to check that - good catch. Well, I'll use the 1st print as a test to see whether it prints, etc. - I really appreciate it - must have a case of the DA's today!!

Hank

12:40pm - OK, this wasn't as difficult as I imagined! Here is the correct orientation of the depth charges in the rack:

Later this afternoon I'll get a new print file set up after I see how the first test examples came out.

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

The good news is that most of the DC's are separate items. In my K gun rack, they had merged with the frame and I had to go in and cut them out and replace.

For anyone interested in the subtleties of the MK 9 series DC's https://maritime.org/doc/depthcharge9/index.htm

On the museum ships the photos show the pistols as being painted sort of a yellow-brassish color. Whether this was done in WWII practice, I have no idea. Interesting that the pistols came separately from the depth charges, the pistols sealed in a tin can with an opening sort of like a bully beef can, grab the tab with pliers and pull the soldered seam apart. Tin can sailors eh?

[BB62vet]

Tom,

The entire DC was painted black. While that looks "neat" to the tourista crowd, it isn't the way the real ships painted their weaps. My racks came out fair, they will need a bit of beefing up on supports and the side mechanism.

Otherwise, the DCs inside the rack all came out ok......except for the end one - when I touched it, it E-X-P-L-O-D-E-D!!! Good thing The Admiral wasn't within earshot!!!



Hank

[Fliger747]

The Depth Charges were originally dubbed "Ash Cans", and they did resemble in their drum form such objects.

[Willie]

Howdy Hank and all,

The inner parts of the relase mechanism were not easy to find, but somehow I managed to gather some pictures that were useful for my own construction.

Here you are :

This graphic is also excellent :

The DC track of USS The Sullivans was on very little help for me; as you can see, it was stripped of virtually everything but the bare structure:

With all this, this is what I was able to produce. It could be useful as an orientation, although I am positive you will produce something way better:

These are old pictures. Since then the track has been repainted and completely dry-brushed, so the small stuff has now more depth.

I hope this can be of some help, and that you dont have to redo the whole track. Oh, the redo's...

Best wishes from this side,

Willie.

[BB62vet]

Tom,
Yes, ASH CANS - quite an appropriate name.... esp. when they go off.... nothing but ashes remain.......

Willie,
Thanks for the input & photos!!! At this stage, I've got things pretty well in hand now. Just finished revising a bit in thicknesses, etc. and also got the "ash cans" in the correct orientation so ready to print.

Your first photo shows the old WWII vintage depth charges, which are way out of date for our use; the other photos are obviously newer showing the Mk. 9 DCs. Your model pix are really good for reference - thanks!

Once again, I've noted in researching these weapons that the FLETCHERs did not all retain the same rack - differences abound and I've patterned mine after the photos I took while on board STODDARD (66-68). As time went on, I think the shipyards minimized the racks as this type of weapons system was not exactly front & center of attention when it came to maintenance & upgrades; just my personal opinion on this!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Something I noticed, many of the DC's on the museum ships have the pistols (and hopefully the explosive as well) removed and a blanking plate installed. The Pistols have a dial depth setting lever usually turned with a special T wrench. Willie! Nice job on the pawls!

Tom

[BB62vet]

Something I noticed, many of the DC's on the museum ships have the pistols (and hopefully the explosive as well) removed and a blanking plate installed. The Pistols have a dial depth setting lever usually turned with a special T wrench. Willie! Nice job on the pawls!
Tom

Tom,
All our DCs were black w/o any variations of painted parts. I've just printed 3 of my 3rd edition DC racks with DCs loaded - these are beefed up framework and ary currently drying. About to go out to cure. I've also designed a Replenishment @ Sea Tripod for the top of Mount 52 -

I've since revised and have the 2nd edition ready to print tonight. The first versions did not sit on a raft and consequently didn't print well. This version is on a raft and damn well better print well!!!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

Was the tripod left "triped" or was it stowed when not win use?

Can't wait to see the finished rack when it's done. Wonder why they painted it black, including DC's?

Tom

[BB62vet]

Hank: Was the tripod left "triped" or was it stowed when not win use? Can't wait to see the finished rack when it's done. Wonder why they painted it black, including DC's? Tom

Tom,
Normally, the R.A.S. tripod was stowed elsewhere and assembled on the mount top when needed. The IOWA class tripods were stowed in place on the turret top, but lowered flat and secured. As for the DC rack - here's a picture of STODDARD's rack in 1967 -

I will paint the DCs black and the rack itself with the Mr. Color gray/black flat lacquer. In this photo the deck is pretty well faded and appears much lighter than would be if it had fresh paint. This photo is also taken in the rain and that makes these items look lighter than they actually were.

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

Thanks for sharing as usual. Wonder why the Mk9 Depth Charges were painted black (Dummies? for entertainment only?). Always some new kinks. Did you print the DC's in the rack, may be fun to paint. I suppose you could spray the whole thing black and then paint the rack?

Yes, I did the UNREP stuff as stowed on the turret top on Missouri. Another good custom Stoddard detail!

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Hank: Thanks for sharing as usual. Wonder why the Mk9 Depth Charges were painted black (Dummies? for entertainment only?). Always some new kinks. Did you print the DC's in the rack, may be fun to paint. I suppose you could spray the whole thing black and then paint the rack?
Cheers: Tom

Tom,
Can't answer that about the DC color, but I "think" that both INGERSOLL and BRANE also had the same color scheme on their racks, as well - they were also in our DESDIV212, DESRON 21.

The empty racks printed out fairly well but will need some trimming of frayed framework - I ran 3 and only need 1 so that gives me a choice at this point. Currently working on the main deck stanchions/lifeline design (also being discussed on your thread DMS-14). While searching info on that topic, I discovered a few more deck sockets along the waterway that I had previously not known about - so these photos are proving invaluable as to locating items that are not even mentioned in the commercial FLETCHER kits. I may have to print another run of these as I'm using them up quickly!

Hank

[Fliger747]

I can just see the scene, some Chief Bosun finds a stash of davit sockets in the shipyard and liberates them, runs around with his chalk , here, here, here. Perhaps a contrast to a scene described in Caine Mutiny where permission has to be obtained from BuShips to weld a bunk in an officers stateroom as it's a "hull mod". Away from the pointy end of the spear the paper IS (Clintonian emphasis) the product.

Arliegh Burke, taking over the Little Beavers in the Solomon's announced his priorities: If it kills (Read sons of Nippon) it's important, if it doesn't kill (repeat) it's not important. Navy paper existed in multiple profusions. Looking through my dad's WWII paperwork, I found six copies of the orders detaching him from his ship and authorizing travel.

The point being as built photos are invaluable! Glad you have them.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Tom,

Interesting analogy - while I sympathize with the admiral, I also see the need for "non-lethal" improvements/alterations/etc. - a weapon system is only as good as its weakest component, right?

We had a 1st class PO die on our way to HI in 1968 on NEW JERSEY. The Personnel Office CPO got me out of my rack to begin the death and transfer paperwork at 2am that morning. Everything was single space typing - 6 carbon copies - NO TYPOS or MISTAKES ALLOWED!!! We were up working on 20 some odd pieces of paperwork way towards noon the next day. What a bummer!! Well, for the dead guy, too!!!! We lost 2 sailors on that cruise, neither combat-related. The paperwork is a PITA - I'm sure even with computers today, it's still a nightmare.

Working on stanchions/lifelines at the moment. Some success, some not so much - as you have said, it's an experiment, no doubt about it!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

The Navy logistics train in WWII was the best in the world. However dealing with it at the ground level left many junior officers and enlisted types forever skeptical. JFK always had a very jaundiced view of the Pentagon from his experiences in WWII as a junior officer. Eisenhower (a brilliant guy) knew about how bad it was at the Pentagon but was despairing of eventual control of the monster.

A detached dead guy also had to be authorized transportation! Loosing two out of a crew of 300 or so on a cruise is a pretty steep non combatant reduction in force. During WWII the US lost right around 400,000 KIA, the Russians lost 250,000 just taking Berlin. I am convinced that if we had held a live fire exercise for 4 years we would have lost probably 200,000 or more. 20,000 were killed in flight training and more were killed practicing for D-Day than in the actual event. 5% of the participants in my dad's Navy flight training were killed. dangerous stuff!

Somebody could do a history PhD in why the Depth Charges were black?

Looking forward to seeing how your various experiments come out with lifelines etc.

Tom