Calling all Scharnhorst and Gneisenau fans!

[Sauragnmon]

Hmm, that's odd then - I would have thought that image was the loading area belowdecks for the lifts, but you can clearly see the top of the guiderails for the hoists. Perhaps they were simply mounted on a raised area, thus the demarcation line, a reinforced deck area to strengthen it perhaps?

[rtwpsom2]

Well, I am still not convinced they are even ammo hoists. I cannot find any reference to magazines for the 105's yet and once I know where they are, it might give me a clue as to how the ammunition gets on deck.


***EDIT***

I have found the 105mm magazines on the koop schmolke drawings, they are five decks below and 50 meters aft of the 105's. There appear to be some shafts 50m forward of the magazine that go from that lower deck up into the gun crew shelter (the big box towards the inside of the rangefinder tower and between the two circlular patterns). I think these are the ammo hoists. They are about the right size for a pair of hoists each.

[rtwpsom2]

I found a good thread at http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 15.30.html with many good and rare photos of Scharnhorst.

[Olaf Held]

I found a good thread at http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 15.30.html with many good and rare photos of Scharnhorst.

Interesting to see - as the German text correctly points out - that not always the railing was folded down before firing... (reply #33 / 10th pic from above...)

Best ~ Olaf

[rtwpsom2]

If anyone is interested, I have found some of the Bundesarchive drawing numbers for Scharnhorst. Here's the ones I can find on the drawings I have.

RM 25/5-1 Takelri� 1:100
RM 25/5-5 Linienri� 1:100
RM 25/5-7 Ruder-und Schraubenanordnung 1:100
RM 25/5-10 Obere Ansicht 1:100
RM 25/5-32 Dockzeichnung 1:200

I have these drawings from the Bundesarchive as well, but can't find numbers for them:

Gesamtl�ngriss U. Querschnitte 1:100
Ruder-und Schraubenanordnung/Querschnitte 1:100
Gesamtdraufsicht, Teildraufsicht 1:100

[WilliamBowden]

Dragon has announced plans for a 1/350 Scharnhorst!

Check out: http://www.dragon-models.com/html/1040.htm for a sneak peak....I can't wait!

[corpsman]

I am attempting to build the Scharnhorst as per the Tamiya kit which represents her in 1943. I am waiting arrival of the Eduard PE set. Question 1: I have is in reference to Part C19 and C8. Having NO information on this class of ship, based upon the Eduard PE instructions, the hangar roof is retractable. Thus, Part C19 should be cut open. Should Part 9 also be opened and widen if the floatplanes were stored inside this hangar. I would like to build my ship with the hangar open and the crane lifting a floatplane out/in of the hangar. Question 2: Shouldn't there be two torpedo lockers just forward of the P&S torpedo tubes?

Have some questions on the 1942 Gneisenau and her hangar. . .

[Sauragnmon]

To help you understand the situation, the Ar-196 Floatplanes were designed with a folding wing. The wing was IIRC a roll and fold, going leading edge up and then folding tip back against the fuselage, just past the floats. They were stored this way in the shelters aboard the Bismarck, on either side of the stack, for comparative size reference. As to how the hangar operated aboard the Scharnhorsts, I don't know, but if they had two, I would question if the catapult was not integral to the elevator for the sake of operation - using the catapult on the elevator would lend itself the ease of storing the floatplanes internally, facing aft, slide them back onto the catapult, lift it topside and then launch that way. But at this, I am simply speculating.

[rtwpsom2]

Q#1: There was no elevator on the Scharnhorst. She used only her cranes to move the planes around, between the hanger and cat, and between the water and the hanger.

The hanger had a 3 piece roll top configuration, with one piece being stationary and two other nesting pieces rolling over the stationary one. Initially the roll tops opened aft, that is the front of the hanger was opened. After her refit for a new bow and hanger, the back of the hanger opened where it butted up against the catapult pedestal. The term "new hanger" is also a misnomer, in that it was the same hanger but slightly modified. The cat pedestal was made into an "A" frame that allowed a new addition to be attached to the back of the existing hanger, and the roll top was simply cut off and turned around.

Q#2: There are two lockers P&S just aft and outboard of the primary cranes. They run alongside the extreme edge of the deck and have a hoist above them coming out the front.

[rivier80]

hi there dose anyone know of any plans the show the structue that houses the bridge and that stuff

[Sean Hert]

hi there dose anyone know of any plans the show the structure that houses the bridge and that stuff

Yes, I do happen to know of some GREAT plans!

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=44544

[cerberusjf]

Hi
I wonder if someone can help? I am wondering about the width of the boot topping, how wide is it? I read in another topic

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=45544

that it extends a metre below where it is drawn on the rendering. But So is the bottom of the boot topping A or B? I thought it was A, but it is difficult to tell, b+w photos can be very misleading.

So which is correct please?

Thanks

John

[Olaf Held]

Your photo is indeed a bit mis-leading as it appears as if the whole antifounling paint and the boot-topping was sanded away in order to refresh it once the torpedo damage is repaired. I can only quote myself, on battleships the boot-topping was 2m in width, 1m above and 1m below the CWL (construction waterline). At least this piece of information comes from the so-called ABB Nr. 31 which was the paint regulation for the Kriegsmarine during the war. I have copies of the 1941 and 1944 edition and in both are those figures mentioned.

Happy painting ~ Olaf!

[cerberusjf]

Thanks very much for your response Olaf, 2m would look about right for B I think this option looks very good on Scharnhorst .

I have a further question though. I have seen a colour (colourised?) picture of Bismarck which shows her with a thin boot topping, and red visible at the waterline. She must be pre-commission as she does not have her rangefinder. I would appreciate your comments. If it is colourised, then the photo has little value for colour schemes. If it is genuine, then perhaps she had a thin boot topping before commissioning? I will post the photo when I get home.

Thanks again

[Olaf Held]

I think yoiu are referring to this photo seen on John's site:

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/g ... olour.html

I can only assume that it is a similar effect that is apparent on your SH drydock photos. The boot-topping is heavily worn and I think this is the reason why it appears that thin. Although the BS photo may have been taken just before or around the commissioning, she spent quite a lot of time in the water until that photo had been taken ...

Ok, back to topic ...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[cerberusjf]

That's the one Olaf, thanks a lot. Probably it is weathering rather than just a thin boot topping.

[corpsman]

I have an OLD article by M.W. Williams of building the Gneisenau with the unique plane hangar structure which was added in late 1941 while at Brest. It states that the structure contained the catapult within, and for launching a plane, large drop doors on a horizontal axis were lowered and the loaded catapults swung out.

Can anyone confirm this? Anyone have pictures/drawings, etc. of this unique hangar system.

Posted on the German Forum back in September and still no reply.

Anyone with comments or build this onto a kit?

[Olaf Held]

Sorry, I never saw this in action but I recall having read about it. I saw a plan of the ship in its proposed but never-to-be configuration and the hangar was a bit more Scharnhorst-ish - if I remember corrrectly - but I don't see a reason why they should have changed the Brest version into the Scharnhorst-version. I will see what I can find, in the meantine ...

... PM Antonio Bonomi on that matter, if one knows about those things, then it's him.

Good luck ~ Olaf!

[Fran Romero]

Hello friends.
As you know in the gallery of yesterday, at last I have finished my diorama the Scharnhorst in Gotenhafen(Gdynia)1943. As I am very bad with the language of Shakespeare, I put this link where I teach all the details of its construction.
http://www.u-modelismo.com/foromodelism ... opic=951.0

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

well first of all my personal congratulations to Fran Romero for the very nice diorama of Scharnhorst at Seebahnhof Gotenhafen-Gdynia on 1943

Than thanks to Olaf for the trust on me ....

Last I invite Corpsman to send me a PM with his mail, so he can have the drawing of the 4th and last Gneisenau hangar he described correctly with the catapult inside.

Meanwhile he can take a look here in on the Gneisenau general drawings :

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1221

Bye Antonio