At 'Em Arizona Fans!

[Bondoman]

Operation K, March 4, 1942 two H8K Emily flying boats flying from French Frigate Shoals conducted a raid on Honolulu.
The first could not find Pearl Harbor and skirted the south side of the island. The other dropped four bombs from 15,000 feet, which landed some miles to the north of Honolulu. Both aircraft then returned to the Marshall Islands.

[BFR4570]

I also agree, given the dangers of sweeping the other gunners in the birdbath with your own muzzle.

And the Japanese did attack again of course, although at about 10,000 feet and at night so the .50s were not useful.

Huh? The Japanese bombers that dropped the fatal bomb were at 10,000 feet, and I'm sure the .50 cal gunners tried to hit them, but of course in vain. But it certainly wasn't at night!

First I have heard of an additional attack at night. Was it an actual attack, or were the Japanese just doing a little recon to see what they might have accomplished? Oh, cool! I wonder if this attack gave Billy Mitchell the idea to bomb Tokyo?

The theory of the rods being deflectors to keep the guns from being depressed too low makes sense to me. So I would imagine the crew in the foremast lookouts would not be real happy about a bunch of .50 FMJ flying through their workspace! The LSM my Dad served on had an incident with a 20mm single that he was involved in. He was ordered by the CPO to remove the deflection rails so the gun could be dismantled for servicing. Before the gun was serviced though, an air raid arrived, and the gunner put a row of holes up through the top of the bridge. Fortunately, no one was injured (turned the Captain white as a sheet), and my Dad didn't get in trouble because he was just following orders. After that, they changed their procedures to only remove the rails when the gun was actually being dismantled for service.

[SeanF]

The safety rod idea makes good sense for the foremast MG platform as well, given the overhead guardrail we've been noticing in these photos - a guardrail that is too high to do any good for just the barrel of the .50. Maybe in addition to a safety feature, the extension could also have been a training aid, to acclimate the gunners to the longer 20mm weapons they were to be receiving soon? Wow, here's the next "holy grail" hunt - to find a close-enough photo of a water-cooled .50 (anywhere - not just on the Arizona) to prove the concept existed! (I'd dive into it, but don't have time for it right now).

Back on the Oerlikon possibility - the theory is that they are unshielded Oerlikons, so the lack of the familiar twin-plate shield proves nothing. The different proportionality of the barrel to the action between the familiar Oerlikon (action just a little bigger than the barrel) and the hazy silhouettes in the Arizona photos ("action" much thicker than the "barrel") certainly swings the argument back against the Oerlikon on Dec. 7. However, there is one more possibility here. According to the Naval Weapons site (I don't have the link at the moment, I'll edit it in later), the version of the Oerlikon mass-produced in America had some significant alterations (much of it in the action) from the original Swiss version, and the hundred or so that were in-stock by Dec. 7 may have still had some early features. I have not seen a photo or drawing of the Swiss originals or the earliest US versions, but a different silhouette from what we're used to seeing might still be a possibility.

- Sean F.

[MartinJQuinn]

Was it an actual attack, or were the Japanese just doing a little recon to see what they might have accomplished? Oh, cool! I wonder if this attack gave Billy Mitchell the idea to bomb Tokyo

It was an actual attack.

The Doolittle Raid using Mitchell bombers had been in the works for sometime when this raid happened.

[BFR4570]

Was it an actual attack, or were the Japanese just doing a little recon to see what they might have accomplished? Oh, cool! I wonder if this attack gave Billy Mitchell the idea to bomb Tokyo

It was an actual attack.

The Doolittle Raid using Mitchell bombers had been in the works for sometime when this raid happened.

Yeah, I noticed. I was doing my comment when Bondoman did his, so I saw his and added another sentence after mine. But, apparently, the system did not accept my addition when I clicked Submit the second time. Oh well....

[kurt]

Just received an email from White Ensign to payup for my Arizona PE, so that should be coming fairly soon!!!!!!

How is everyone making out with the hawsehole problem? Cutting them out and reversing them sounds like one of those things that would end in disaster. I haven't really looked closely at it yet, but i figure whatever I do I'll make the lip on the bottom from rolled out epoxy putty. I have been trying to figure out what extra detail could go on the bottom of the hull. The only thing I've noticed in looking at the Penssy and Arizona dry dock pics is large intake port(??) just aft of where the blister begins.

[dsk]

Operation K, March 4, 1942 two H8K Emily flying boats flying from French Frigate Shoals conducted a raid on Honolulu.
The first could not find Pearl Harbor and skirted the south side of the island. The other dropped four bombs from 15,000 feet, which landed some miles to the north of Honolulu. Both aircraft then returned to the Marshall Islands.

Interesting. I have enough books on the Pacific war to sink a ship, yet none of them ever mentioned this little footnote to history.

[Bondoman]

Operation K, March 4, 1942 two H8K Emily flying boats flying from French Frigate Shoals conducted a raid on Honolulu.
The first could not find Pearl Harbor and skirted the south side of the island. The other dropped four bombs from 15,000 feet, which landed some miles to the north of Honolulu. Both aircraft then returned to the Marshall Islands.

Interesting. I have enough books on the Pacific war to sink a ship, yet none of them ever mentioned this little footnote to history.

Here's the one book I have. I came across it actually while researching the IJN Flying Boat operations, which were a key element in their western Pacific strategy. The H8K carried 20mm cannons as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Second-Attack-Pea ... 987&sr=1-1Following the attack, and not knowing another was planned, the US stationed a series of DD's and AVP's at French Frigate Shoals to prevent it's use as a temporary base for seaplanes to refuel from submarines, as was the case in the attack. Following Midway a land base was built there.

[Hippy Ed]

There were attacks on the U.S. mainland by the japs as well. They dropped incidery bombs in Oregon, fired a torpedo at the oilfield in Goleta, Ca just to naame a couple off the top of my head. there were others tho...

[mark_sch]

I knew about what Ed mentioned but did not know about the second attempt at an attack on Pearl. Thanks for the info Bondoman.
Mark

[Leftie]

As you can see in this photo the vertical braces are attached to the upper and lower diagonals. not an impossible task to do in1/200, just a pain in the butt. But if you want it right...

[mark_sch]

Hello leftie,
Are you going to be using any pe on your 1/200 Arizona? Pe replacement should solve the problem if you are refering to the Aircraft crane.
Mark

[Leftie]

Thanks Mark. I haven't found yet a PE that didn't have that wrong brace in the oval.

[Peter Van Buren]

The REPLY feature is not working for me Kurt, so here is my reply:

The KA decks are very very easy to work with. It really is as simple as this:

--glue down the plastic deck that comes with the ship. Wipe it clean and dry it with a damp rag.

--poke out the few laser cut holes on the deck that did not fall out. KA models creates cut outs for everything that is proud of the deck.

--using a sharp knife or razor blade, peel off the plastic backing on the wood deck.

--position the deck over the plastic VERY carefully. The glue is very strong and you only get one, maybe two, chances at this.

--press the deck down with your fingers. Use the back end of a knife or tweezers to seat the deck in the corners.

I do not seal or paint the deck. If you do, be very careful as the wood is literally paper thin and will curl on you. All of the decks you see on my ships are unsealed and unstained. I have never had a problem with them peeling up.

Looking forward to seeing your work Kurt!

Peter

[kurt]

A question to the guys who have really studied this kit. What is the earliest the Arizona can be portrayed as without any real modifications to the model?

[Tracy White]

January 1941.

[davidwaples]

Re: Question about deck shades

Greetings, I posted this question on the main forum but because my question is specific to the Arizona I thought I would post it here as well. I'm interested if anyone has any specific information about the deck shades that were erected when she was sunk. I think this would be an interesting detail to the model but I'm not sure how to go about modeling, or for that matter how they were erected on this ship. It appears from looking at my photo references that stanchions were inserted on top of the deck rail posts and the shades simply attached to the tops of these posts as well as to the ship's structure. But I can't tell if there is any additional rigging associated wit this set up.

So my question is twofold. First does anyone have any suggestions for modeling these? And second does anyone have any information about how these shades were erected and secured on the ship?

Thanks
Dave

[BFR4570]

Re: Question about deck shades

Greetings, I posted this question on the main forum but because my question is specific to the Arizona I thought I would post it here as well. I'm interested if anyone has any specific information about the deck shades that were erected when she was sunk. I think this would be an interesting detail to the model but I'm not sure how to go about modeling, or for that matter how they were erected on this ship. It appears from looking at my photo references that stanchions were inserted on top of the deck rail posts and the shades simply attached to the tops of these posts as well as to the ship's structure. But I can't tell if there is any additional rigging associated wit this set up.

So my question is twofold. First does anyone have any suggestions for modeling these? And second does anyone have any information about how these shades were erected and secured on the ship?

Thanks
Dave

I believe this is the purpose of the several rows of holes in the decks at various locations. The holes are visible in close-up photos, and appear to be about two inches in diameter. Just the right size to stick a two inch post into to support a canopy, and tied off to nearby points a turret or upper deck stanchion. I believe the posts used along the deck railings were just tied to one of the stanchions. With the variety of holes available, this would allow for a number of different configurations of a canopy. I believe these holes are actually molded into the decks of the 1/200 Arizona, so it should be fairly easy to use piano wire (or even hard brass rod) of the appropriate diameter to replicate these poles.

[davidwaples]

I spent a lot of time looking at old photographs in the Stillwell book. It's clear that there were extenders that mounted on top of the railing stanchions. These extenders are connected across the top the length of the shades and this is where the shades are connected somehow. They seem to connect to the grab irons on the turrets and structures. There also seem to be some center supports on the bow and stern shades.

I think maybe the way to go about this is to create a framework from brass and secure to the deck in front of the photoetch rails. Then as was suggested make some templates out of paper. Once the size is determined use some tissue paper or silk span and and lay out on a jig and impregnate with diluted PVA to give it some stiffness. Paint and then transfer to the model. Then do some final rigging to finish it off. A lot of work but that's how she looked at the time she was attacked. Shades on the bow, stern, and amidship.

Still, I have never done this before. I'm hoping somebody here has done something similar and has some suggestions.

Dave

[dsk]

The January 1941 refit added the large cube-shaped AA directors on either side of the bridge, the triangular cage-style yardarms on the foretop, splinter shields around the 5"/25 AA guns, four tubs to hold 1.1" AA guns that were never installed, the large "birdbath" on top of the maintop, and additional .50 cal machine guns. There may have been some other minor changes as well. The radar platform on the foretop that's included with the kit wasn't added until at least August '41. Backdating the kit earlier than Jan '41 isn't really that difficult, but the bridge would need the most alterations. I noticed in the 3/30/39 pic on page 214 of Stillwell's book that there were a lot of obvious changes in the shape of all four levels of the bridge versus 1941. Nothing a good scratchbuilder can't handle, but a bit above my skill level.