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Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:47 am
by marijn van gils
Thank you guys! :smallsmile: :cool_2: :smallsmile:
wefalck wrote:How did you fix the figures on deck?
With gell type superglue, followed by some matt varnish to hide any shiny spots.
JIM BAUMANN wrote:the wounded and the blood split on the deck add some authenticity

Its a fine line to tread-
- the reality and horror of casualties and blood and the completed dioramas casual observers sensitivities..!

In my view ---do not shy away from showing it as it was ...
Indeed, it is a very fine line... And it is also difficult to know how it looked like exactly; period paintings are probably also sanitized quite a bit.
To be realistic I will probably have to add a lot more casualties and blood. They will also be important to portray the atmosphere of such a battle. It was not a fun sports game...
So I will add quite a bit more than this on the upper decks. But I will also have to watch that thin line, not to make it look like a horror movie scene... Quite a nice challenge in fact! ;)

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:57 am
by EJFoeth
Oh, that's going to be very good!

Incidentally, what punch & die set do you use? You mention 0.3mm; I have an RP-tools set that goes to only 0.5mm...

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:25 am
by marijn van gils
Thanks Evert-Jan! :smallsmile: :smallsmile: :smallsmile:

I don't know the brand name, and I don't think it is made or can be found anymore. I bought it in 1998 at Folkestone, I think from Historex Agents. I have never seen it again since. It has served me well over the years: pretty good quality, and that 0,3mm is super useful. That is probably the size I have used most.

I also have the RP-Tools. I think the quality is much better than the old one, so I use it for every other size. But I wish he would include a 0,3mm size. I saw him last weekend at SMC; I should have pushed for it! :big_grin:

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 8:46 am
by Iceman 29
It's Dantesque!

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:04 am
by EJFoeth
marijn van gils wrote:I don't know the brand name, and I don't think it is made or can be found anymore. I bought it in 1998 at Folkestone, I think from Historex Agents. I have never seen it again since. It has served me well over the years: pretty good quality, and that 0,3mm is super useful. That is probably the size I have used most.

I also have the RP-Tools. I think the quality is much better than the old one, so I use it for every other size. But I wish he would include a 0,3mm size. I saw him last weekend at SMC; I should have pushed for it! :big_grin:
Possible the Historex set; I used to have it but I think it succumbed to rust... (or it is hidden somewhere?). I also used the Waldron set that has the worst method of storing the punches and a number of the punches were damaged/bent etc.. The RP Toolz version build quality is much better and the punches handle far better (though I have destroyed a few). A microset would indeed be useful! Not sure if they make the tools or import them? Their cutter is the same as the Sujiborido version, or... is that their Japanese name (They say designed and manufactured in the EU)? Did not try that cutter yet as it misses one key feature that the NorthWest variant has; clamps to hold your own cutting stops. Plus, you can rotate a few parts on their chopper that seems like a source of inaccuracy ... On the other hand, I'm trying to cut 0.1m wide strips and the NorthWest chopper is not up to the task; perhaps the slack in the hinger of the RP Toolz cutter is better... Could order one but if it doesn't work out: I already have an expensive paperweight (a DSPIAE circle cutter). Speaking of which, perhaps we can petition RPtoolz to also design and build the worlds first good circle cutter? :heh: Right, back to timbering the whaler...

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:00 am
by ModelMonkey
Absolutely brilliant.

Upon closer inspection, I now know why. The crew are not models. They are real people, reduced in size through some dark magic known only to Marijn.

I want my 20 quid, Billy.

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:54 pm
by Iceman 29
" On this day of 1805, the Royal Navy defeated a combined French and Spanish fleet at the Battle of Trafalgar. Fighting for Nelson were many foreign born sailors including over 360 Americans, 23 of whom served on HMS Victory.
Many had volunteered but some had been pressed. "

U.S. Naval Institute.
https://twitter.com/NavalInstitute/stat ... 7391085622

The Hero of Trafalgar.
William Heysham Overend
https://www.meisterdrucke.com/kunstdruc ... algar.html
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Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:23 pm
by SG1
It is beyond magnificent Marijn!

EJ i had built a field 0.3 punch & die out of thick plasticard and drillbits, for the alu pintles of my 1/400 88 mm gun mount. It worked well. Pretty cheap and basic, easily reproducible. It is only suitable for very thin aluminium and the thinnest brass shim which i guess is 0.02 mm: I wouldn't recommend it for thicker materials.

Cheers,

SG

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:15 am
by Maarten Sch�nfeld
Iceman 29 wrote:" On this day of 1805, the Royal Navy defeated a combined French and Spanish fleet at the Battle of Trafalgar. Fighting for Nelson were many foreign born sailors including over 360 Americans, 23 of whom served on HMS Victory.
Many had volunteered but some had been pressed. "
Too true, Pascale! But so were all navies (and armies) in that period. The French Navy also counted numerous foreign sailors and soldiers (marines). Even officers! From Germany (parts of), Denmark (after 1807!), the Netherlands, Italy, Spain andsoforth.

Why I stated Denmark after 1807: in that year the Royal Navy bombarded Copenhagen and captured the entire Danish fleet (except for two ships), and as a result Denmark sided with Napoleon. Britain hadn't relied on Denmark's neutrality, and the result was they got one more enemy...

The Netherlands and Italy (parts of) were in 1805 already occupied vasal states under French control, having no choice for themselves.

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 6:15 am
by marijn van gils
That's a great solution SG!
Evert-Jan, with your Proxxon mill, you could also make one from plexi and steel for more durability.

Maarten Sch�nfeld wrote:
Iceman 29 wrote:" On this day of 1805, the Royal Navy defeated a combined French and Spanish fleet at the Battle of Trafalgar. Fighting for Nelson were many foreign born sailors including over 360 Americans, 23 of whom served on HMS Victory.
Many had volunteered but some had been pressed. "
Too true, Pascale! But so were all navies (and armies) in that period. The French Navy also counted numerous foreign sailors and soldiers (marines). Even officers! From Germany (parts of), Denmark (after 1807!), the Netherlands, Italy, Spain andsoforth.

Why I stated Denmark after 1807: in that year the Royal Navy bombarded Copenhagen and captured the entire Danish fleet (except for two ships), and as a result Denmark sided with Napoleon. Britain hadn't relied on Denmark's neutrality, and the result was they got one more enemy...

The Netherlands and Italy (parts of) were in 1805 already occupied vasal states under French control, having no choice for themselves.
Furthermore, it was hard to know how many really volunteered for the British, as pressed men were usually given the option to 'volunteer', which entitled them to sign-up money and some other benefits. Needles to say, many took this option when there was no way out anyway...

Back to the model... :)
As promised, and now that I have some experience with it, I made step-by-step photographs of the rigging of the guns. Part 1: the breeching ropes.


The breeching ropes are in reality quite thick. I made them from tinned copper wire, twisting two strands of 0,1 mm together. I basecoated this by brush with Humbrol enamel matt 72.

After drying, I cut short lengths and superglued them in the holes in the sides of the carriages (n�1 in the photo below). The French guns are much simpler than the British ones in this respect; the British ones need to be folded over the cascabel of the gun instead.

I then cut them to the correct length and folded the ends back into flattened loops (n� 2). I found it easier to do this with the wire folded forward.
On the quarterdeck and forecastle guns, I plan to place a small ring in that loop, but visibility of the bulwarks in the waist is so bad that I didn�t bother here.

Then, the ropes were carefully bent as close as possible to their final shape (n� 3). I did this before attaching the guns into the ship, so I could manipulate the ropes easier. I constantly checked on a flat surface and test-fitted in the ship. This takes some care and quite a lot of time; probably in between 5 and 10 minutes per gun. But when done well, they need little further work once the gun is glued in the ship.

For all of this, I used pointed tweezers while gently holding the gun with two fingers.

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Next, the guns were glued in their final positions with gel type superglue.
Note how the breeching ropes are very close to their final position, but are often �floating� over the deck just a little:

Image

The ropes were now glued down to the decks and to the sides of the ship with liquid superglue:
Image

Shiny glue spots were eliminated with a little matt varnish:
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To bring out the ropes and their texture, I added a dark pinwash (raw umber + black oil paint):
Image

And highlighted with Humbrol enamels (in this case basically drybrushed with the tip of a n�000 brush). One pass with the base-colour (matt 72), the second one with matt 72 + white:
Image


Next up: the side and training tackles!

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:32 am
by SG1
Image

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 10:46 am
by Rui Matos
Hi Marijn

Excellent, excellent in all levels, except... (see image bellow)

You have put so much work in this project, please, please don't be lasy!
;)

Bravo & Cheers,
Rui

PS: I do not know what else I can say to prayse and give incentive for you to continue working on the marvel, Marijn!

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 2:13 am
by marijn van gils
:big_grin: :rolf_3: :big_grin: :rolf_3: :big_grin:

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:28 am
by Pieter
This pool ball set is wrong on soooooo many levels. 5 in fact.
Rui Matos wrote:Hi Marijn



PS: I do not know what else I can say to prayse and give incentive for you to continue working on the marvel, Marijn!

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:24 am
by Rui Matos
Good morning all

Marijn,

Now on a more serious note, a quick question:
- Have you considered have some of the projectiles spent (all the "ammo triangles" are full)?

Cheers,
Rui

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:59 am
by marijn van gils
Yes, I did! :smallsmile:

This side (starboard) is not engaged at this stage of the battle. That is also why all guns are run out (one got knocked about by a roundshot that went through the hull), ready if needed.

But the port side is engaged and part of the 8-balls is spent:
Image

This difference will also show in the crew placement later on.
All of this is a bit different from Victory, who is engaged at both sides (Redoutable at starboard, Santissama Trinidad at port but at longer range).

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:00 am
by Rui Matos
Thank you Marijn

:)

(sorry for being a pest)
Cheers,
Rui

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 4:30 pm
by Iceman 29
Tome 2 page 267-268 de Mr.Boudriot "Vaisseau de 74 canons":

Image

Image

Image

�Greg_3D

HD: https://i.servimg.com/u/f81/19/25/94/93/gregor46.jpg

Image

HD: https://i.servimg.com/u/f81/19/25/94/93/gregor45.jpg

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Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:50 am
by marijn van gils
Rui, that's the kind of pest I love! :big_grin: :wave_1:
Thank you!


Thank you Pascal! I have the 4 books of Boudriot's 'Vaisseau de 74 canons' (well, the English translation), so those are the drawings I used as reference. The 3D drawings are new for me though, and look beautifully done!

I have one question:
Those drawings are of the 36pd guns, and they have two training tackles (the tackles at the rear of the gun). These are attached at the same ringbolts as the side tackles: at the rear corners of the carriage.
But for the 18lb guns and below, it seems there was only one training tackle issued, and the deck only has one ringbolt for attaching it. But the carriages show only the ringbolts like the 36pd guns: at the rear corners of the carriage.
So my question is: is this a mistake, and was there a ringbolt at the rear centre of the carriage (on the axle?) for a single training tackle? Or was the single tackle simple attached to one of the corner ringbolts, left or right according to convenience or the side they wanted to aim?

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:40 am
by wefalck
Somehow, the 3D illustration doesn't seem to be right. The tackles at the rear cannot be used for 'training' the gun, as they would just pull it straight back. I believe there would be only one tackle to run in the gun in case one wanted to unload it or to steady it when loading and the ship is rolling. This tackle would need to be unhooked before firing or otherwise the gun would run over it and foul it.