Calling all New Mexico-class (BB-40) fans

[varifleman]

I hope Samek will offer the kit in WWI configuration.

[Jeff Sharp]

Here are a couple of pics of USS New Mexico while she was in Iceland in Sept. '41. These are the first two photos I have ever been able to find, after years of looking, of New Mexico in 1941. She is wearing a "version" of MS-12 camouflage. Adm. King ordered the Atlantic Fleet into MS-12 in July 1941.

[lobohowler]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting these. I've only ever seen pics of Idaho in Iceland for neutrality patrol. Good find!

[maurice de saxe]

The Imperial War Museum collection of online photographs has eight images of New Mexico in Iceland. Interestingly, they date them to October and November 1941 (because they were taken by photographers on specific RN ships) - and one of them is identical to one of the two images Mr. Sharp posted as dating to September. Who knows?

To find them I suggest following this link:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/searc ... +War%5D=on

[Jeff Sharp]

Every single one of those pics are of either Mississippi or Idaho, not New Mexico and have been posted here for quite awhile. For the one you claim is the same pic, look again! It is similar but NOT the same pic.

[Daytona675R]

Wonderful find, Jeff!

Btw, why do you consider her camo as a "version" of the Measure 12? Because not only all above the top of the superstructure mass was painted in 5-H as specifed in the SHIPS-2, but the highest part of the superstructure itself as well?

I find interesting that Mississippi was painted the same way but Idaho was not. Missing the 5-H altogether.

Edit: 5-H, of course.

[Jeff Sharp]

Couple of reasons I say �version�. First, she is different than Idaho who appears not to have painted her slender upperworks a lighter color (5H or 5L). Second, she darkened her turret face plates and 14� gun barrels whereas neither Mississippi nor Idaho did. If you look at the photos of her at Norfolk Navy Yard getting painted into MS-12 modified in Jan.�42 you can see she still has those dark faceplates and barrels. Lastly, there is some discussion as to what colors she is wearing in the Sept. �41 photo. When King ordered the fleet into MS-12 on July 19, 1941 Sea Blue 5-S and Haze Gray 5-H were not quite available yet to the fleet so there is speculation that MS-12 was carried out on some ships using the available colors already on hand namely Dark Gray 5D and Light Gray 5-L. I wish I knew the exact date she painted into MS-12 and when 5-S/5-H we�re available. That would help answer some questions.
The fleet�s transition into MS-12 appears to be a very quick one. Photos of the US ships at the Atlantic Charter on Aug. 14, 1941 show them all to be in MS-12.

[Daytona675R]

Thank you for the explanation.

Good point with the dark turret faces. Never noticed this. The 5-S/5-D question due to the limited availability of appropriate paints never came to my mind as well, however, it sounds pretty logical.

But the slender upperworks being painted in 5-H (or maybe 5-L as a temporary solution) are in line with the Measure 12 as defined in SHIPS-2 (Rev. 1; 9/41), aren't they? In this case the Idaho is the one, who is not following the regulations.

[Jeff Sharp]

It appears the interpretation of "Pole masts, yards, slender upper works above level of top superstructure masses, Haze Gray 5-H" varied from ship to ship. New Mexico and Mississippi seem to be the exception where they painted more than the pole masts. Most other ships only painted the pole masts with 5-H (5-L). Here are a few of them in September 1941 and if I had to guess, only Albemarle has 5-S on her hull.

USS Augusta


USS Tuscaloosa


USS Buck


USS Albemarle

[Dick J]

Jeff,

I have a couple of corrections in the ship ID's. The New Orleans class cruiser is Vincennes (CA-44) rather than Tuscaloosa. The open communications bridge level and the MK-34 directors are distinctive. And the Curtiss class AV is probably Curtiss herself rather than Albemarle. Curtiss received a CXAM-1 radar that is visible in Pearl Harbor photos. Unless there was a 15th CXAM-1 manufactured, Albemarle did not. Curtiss was in the Atlantic until late May of '41.

[Jeff Sharp]

Hi Dick,
You may be right about the Vincennes. The AV is definitely Ablemarle.

[Dick J]

I stand by what I said. Either the AV is Curtiss, or there was a 15th CXAM-1 radar set. The ship in both photos has a CXAM-1 antenna. The only other possibility I see for your second photo is that the two were operating together for a short time.

[Captain Morgan]

I think since the small boat in the photo has ALB painted on it, its probably Albemarle. unless it's a photo of Curtiss showing one of Albemarle's small boats, which is a remote possibility.

[Jeff Sharp]

Here�s a link to the film these stills were taken from.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a5wSeshlCXE
These ships were at Argentia, Newfoundland. USS Texas was also there so this film dates between Oct. 15th thru Nov. 28th 1941. USS Curtiss was at Pearl during this time.

[Rick E Davis]

Dick,

I think she is USS ALBEMARLE (AV-5), these images from late 1941 at Argentia wearing the same camo scheme and then back at Norfolk in February 1942, shows her CXAM-1 radar.

USS ALBEMARLE arrived at Argentia on 18 May 1941 and USS CURTIS (AV-4) departed (from Norfolk?) on 26 May 1941 for the Pacific. An image on Navsource reportedly dated June 1942 shows USS ALBEMARLE at Argentia wearing Ms 2 and showing no CXAM-1 radar. It is possible that USS CURTIS was at Argentia prior to heading to the Pacific and that USS ALBEMARLE relieved her, but her DANFS entry doesn't mention that she was ever at Argentia.

USS ALBEMARLE departed from Argentia on 12 June 1941 when she returned to Norfolk where she loaded supplies for a mission to Newfoundland before returning back to Norfolk for an availability at NorNY 25 July to 11 August 1941. She then returned to Argentia on 16 August 1941 and was there until 1 November 1941, returning to Norfolk on 7 November 1941. So, I suspect this photo was taken sometime between 16 August to 1 November 1941. Her CXAM-1 radar was likely installed at NorNY during the July-August 1941 availability.

[Dick J]

Then I think we are looking at my option "B". There must have been a 15th CXAM-1 set. That makes an interesting statement about the importance placed on the new, large AV's. Both of them got CXAM-1's in preference to many battleships and cruisers. The only other ship type in which all received CXAM series sets were the CV's, although Hornet tried to get by with an SC set until after Midway when she received a "hand-me-down" CXAM from the California. I wonder if there were any more unidentified CXAM series sets out there?

[Rick E Davis]

In his "NAVAL RADAR" book, Dr Friedman said there were six CXAM and fourteen CXAM-1 radars built. He lists thirteen ships equipped with CXAM-1 as being; USS LEXINGTON, SARATOGA, RANGER, ENTERPRISE, WASP, TEXAS, PENNSYLVANIA, WEST VIRGINIA, NORTH CAROLINA, WASHINGTON, CINCINNATI, CURTISS, and ALBEMARLE. Which other one do you have? There is a possibility that one of these had their set mored to another ship.

[Dick J]

The 6 CXAM sets were on California, Yorktown, Pensacola, Northampton, Chester and Chicago. California's set was removed during salvage and installed on Hornet after Midway. At some point in Feb or Mar '42, Northampton replaced her CXAM with West Virginia's CXAM-1 - I have found no explanation for the change. (Perhaps at the same time the forefunnel was shortened and capped?) Two other cruisers appear to have carried CXAM-1.
Augusta: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/031/0403108.jpg
Memphis: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/013/0401309.jpg

That makes 15 by my count. I still find it interesting that both of the new, big seaplane tenders got the rare experimental large-antenna sets.

[Dan K]

Perhaps the tenders were to be used for testing the units in conjunction with their seaplanes. A series of range and detection exercises?

[MartinJQuinn]

And we are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic now.