The Ship Model Forum

Well, it took 2 days, 5 printing sessions, a couple minor design improvements, but I now have a complete set (3 right/3 left) of gun assemblies that printed out 100%, and have 6 alternate or test pieces for experimental painting etc. Turns out that the vertical printing position works best (so far!) BUT this particular printer (as Tom Falley has also found out) - the Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K has a minor glitch somewhere in it's hardware design - if you do not keep the threaded column (on which the printing platform moves up/down) cleaned and oiled, it will create a jog in the part - a small offset in the shape at the point where this occurs - in my latest piece, this occurred 1/4" from the end of the gun barrels. On Friday, it occurred in the recoil area of the barrels diagonally because I had the parts oriented at a 30� angle from the platform. Last night, 4th printing, and after cleaning & oiling the shaft I got a successful set of parts. So, this more or less proves it's a hardware issue, not a software issue. At least, at this point.

So, here are a couple photos of the gun barrel assemblies just after I removed them from the wash tubs:

Right Gun: Left Gun: After doing a bit of hand water washing with a soft brush, I set them under the UV Curing Lamp overnight. So, now while waiting for spray paint from a new source, I'll test fit some of the smaller platforms and so forth and see how things look and make any design/printing changes to them in the interim. Having a few extras of each of the needed parts will enable me to make some mock up pieces without using the best parts for the model itself. That's another benefit of printing your own parts - you can make as many as needed

When I made the decision to actually try designing/printing my own 3"/50 dual gun mount, I had no confidence that such a complex part could be done to the extent that I have actually been able to achieve - esp. with the limited experience in both 3D design/printing that I currently have. But, individual perseverance and the ability to draw from a couple others who are also working on various modeling projects/parts in 3D and are willing to share their individual experiences, etc. - has made this effort a success. I want to thank both Tom Falley (aka Fliger747) and Pascal (aka Iceman29) for their input along the way!! In addition, Steve Larson (aka Model Monkey) and Phil Hayes (aka Dr. PR) have added their valuable commentary, as well. And, last but certainly not least, I want to thank Rick E. Davis for providing me with some additional photo references and historical content which assisted greatly in the design end of this effort. While I have a LONG way to go on building this model ship (a LOT more parts need to be designed/printed, etc.) this month-long effort has eliminated a major roadblock in getting this project finished. I already have several major parts in the early design stage which will now be attended to with the weapons systems for the model pretty well in hand. These include:
Service & RADAR Platform + Tripod Main Mast.
Front Nav. Bridge Windscreen & Canopy
SPS-10 RADAR unit
01 Level After Deckhouse Handrails/Stanchions
01 Level Fwd. Hedgehog Deck Handrails/Stanchions
And probably other smaller items I can't think of right now

And, it will be time to tackle the oil-canning on the hull - so, that will be a large, manual effort and one that I won't be rushing thru - one shot to get that right!!

Hank

Hank:

Congratulations! I remember when you stated this mount, mostly as an experiment, a well, yes I could do the base, then as with eating an elephant, things progressed at one bite at a time. It will be quite fun to see the mount assembled, painted and in place. In person, on the model, it will become apparent just how small and detailed these are!

Cheers: Tom

Well, thanks Tom!! Much appreciated. I just may hit the shop this afternoon and see how well the small parts fit on the foundation - Yes, the final product sitting in place will be a major achievement!

Hank

If the itty bits turn out too difficult to position you could try printing with them in place?

Now that you have created the very difficult 3" 50 twin mount, anything else you need will be easier!

Tom

Hi there Hank and all,

Congratulations for your excellent 3"/50�s.
Printing vertical renders definitely much better results than horizontal, no doubt whatsoever. Even if you will have to file and sand for some interesting hours all the same, to have the tubes in one piece and already done without further handling will make things much easier.

BB62vet wrote: When I made the decision to actually try designing/printing my own 3"/50 dual gun mount, I had no confidence that such a complex part could be done to the extent that I have actually been able to achieve - esp. with the limited experience in both 3D design/printing that I currently have. But, individual perseverance and the ability to draw from a couple others who are also working on various modeling projects/parts in 3D and are willing to share their individual experiences, etc. - has made this effort a success.

Certainly. I would say you have achieved an excellent compromise between scale, recognizable pieces and level of detail. I have made the same pieces myself, and I know what kind of garden you have stepped into. To have made less detailed guns would have made them kind of bare tubes; to try more detailed sets would actually have made a mess of plastic, less realistic, and even with these limitations, you have achieved some surprising, delicate details.

All separate sets put together will make a superb Humpty-Dumpty Easter egg.

Nice going from this side of the north Atlantic,

Willie.

This is very successful Hank, as thoughtful persistence always pays off in the end.

Tom, Willie, Pascal - Thanks so much for the positive feedback!! Certainly helps knowing that there are constructive ideas just over the horizon and not just "lurkers" who I guess haven't a clue!

Anyhow, All Comments are read and digested for further evaluation - today I did get started on some basic painting and may go back out to do some more - this being on the small parts - I really think once I'm able to post a photo of one completed mount, there will be a better understanding of how this whole thing fits together in such a tiny space.

I recall as a 2nd (and later 1st) loader on Mt. 33, that the space to work in was very limited and yet you had a single job to perform in order to keep the gun "fed" properly. I hope to post further photos soon!!

Hank

The guns look real good Hank; can't wait to see the entire mount!

Bruce,

I thank you so much for the comments AND...your link with the 3"/50 walk around photos. They certainly did help out with some of the smaller items that are only present in one view or another. I hope to get some photos posted this week coming up of the entire mount assembled. I have done a bit of painting today, but also had some small fractures to repair in some of the pieces. I'm using the "2nds" and not my 1st line printing parts on this first assembly run.

Once again, thanks! and stay tuned!!

Hank

Hank:

You will have achieved a number of special achievements that will make your Stoddard, DD 455 a special celebration of your time on her as a young man. Yesterday I was looking at my dad's card testifying he had passed the Naval Aviators Swimming test. NAVPERS 1234.... Shows what they thought of the brown shoes. In that vein I wonder if Watts was chosen as Reserve Training ship... DD 456.

I was reading on the Phrozen forum the other day and went to a link where an "expert" discussed why printing at angles was sometimes advantageous. A lot of it had to do with the peeling force between layers which is related to cross sectional area. Hollowing out items probably assists in this area. Another help can be reducing the lift rate.

Looking forward to seeing the finished mount!

Cheers: Tom

A nit; USS STODDARD was DD-566 and USS WATTS was DD-567.

I still think my memory is marginally better than uncle Joe... Sorry for the mem slip!

I did get the NAVPERS 1234 right!

R.E.D. - Glad to hear from you!! Always checking up on us Enlisted....to make sure we don't screw something up, right????? LOL!!!

David P - You were a Correctional Officer in an earlier life, right?.....nothing to say about the ACTUAL Subject at hand?

Tom - Uh-oh.....you said the.... "J" word - we all know the numb-nuts you are speaking of.....you're a bad, bad boy
Somewhere...my scrap book perhaps? I have one of those swimmer's cards also - in addition, all my liberty cards and shot record from back during my service years!!! Possibly also my Regiestered Mail P.O. card - yep, had to have that to sign for Confidential & above registered mail

I took a break from the 1st gun mount assembly today - using 2nds instead of the "good stuff", I'm finding small things I can redesign/reprint, etc. in order to make the assembly process go smoother. There are currently either 14 or 15 parts that make up the mount - I'll reduce that by combining 3 parts on the right side and possibly 2 parts on the left. Also, increasing some of the extremely small diameter linear parts where they are not visible but will work out better with improvements. No photos today, perhaps tomorrow.

Hank

After several hours of assembling the 15 separate parts that make up the entire gun mount, I knew then that some changes would be necessary more for the ease of assembly rather than simply fit. So, I combined a couple of parts on one side of the mount into one piece and three parts on the other side in order to simplify assembly and also ensure the correct location of these parts: In addition, I resized/scaled the gun sight that goes on the outboard side of the left gun: Whether or not this part prints correctly is suspect at this point - the original part was oversized and I figured that it would need to be smaller. So, we'll see later today if this comes out in a useable state. Last night Tom F. & I had a fairly long discussion regarding our parts design/printing and he mentioned slowing the lifting speed in the setup program which is something I will also reset prior to this mornings printing session. Lift speed has to do with the amount of time it takes the upper (moveable) plate to go up/down between printing layers (as I understand this ). This also may have a more positive effect on whether or not a "jog" occurs in the printing process. I've mentioned that before. I also made small adjustments in the design of the Mk. 34 RADAR dish in order to improve the printing of this part - I also went back to the spherical version of this part rather than the cone version - hopefully by also adding some thickness to the dish & components I will get a good print of it this time around.

This morning I've got a reprint of the 3"/50 gun mount base plate in progress as they didn't turn out correct last night. Here's a shot of that part: FYI - the 4 holes in the plate are to allow Trolls to fall thru and die!

While that's in the hatchery, I've been designing a 1-15 Man Raft Rack which the ship had 13-15 or so during my tenure on board. The size is right, the shape is right, but the bars/spacing may be needed to be adjusted as my photos only show these items with the raft packs in place; so, hard to see the support bracing, etc. Here is a photo of that: This will be this afternoon's printing session.

Hank

12 Noon update - Of the 6 base plates, only one of the three I had oriented flat came out correct; all three of the angled orientation parts came out fine. Go figure, right? Don't know why, but angling flat items (round, sq., etc.) seem to print better than those laying flat. Hope to get the raft racks in the hopper post haste!

Hank:

I have lots of photos from Missouri of the empty packs. I'll see if I can dig some up. Whether or not they are the same unit, I do not know.

Tom

Hank:

These are on Missouri. Perhaps they required a larger raft and holder, battleship guys being better fed?

Fliger747 wrote:

These are on Missouri. Perhaps they required a larger raft and holder, battleship guys being better fed?

Yes, we were considered the "Fat Bastards" in the fleet due to enormous amounts of ice cream delivered daily!!!!

I appreciate the ref. photo - I think the bottom frame was a basic raft frame with the additional piping added to allow for stacking those packs. NJ had similar affairs in the 60s but were made of flat bar rather than steel pipe. These seem to be a combination of both.

I printed 16 and got 16, so that was a good effort. They are now curing under UV. Here's an example: The base plates took some sanding and drilling out of a central hole so right now they are drying in the paint box.

Hank

Hank, I would advise you to put object supports at the end of these flat surfaces, this is a critical area like the corners or edges of a rectangle/square, this is where the resin can delaminate when separating with the FEP film. as can be seen in your photo.

I don't trust the program to apply the supports, precisely because it doesn't always apply them in the critical contours.

Pascal,

Thanks so much for pointing that out - you saw something I missed earlier today. I did let the program do the supports (which NORMALLY I don't do), and will go back a run another set AFTER doing the supports as you suggested. I'll also check the other 15 to see if there's any separation at those joints also.

It's always great to have positive and negative feedback on this entire learning process (3D stuff).

Hank

8pm Edit:

I've redone a couple features on the rack and have reprinted it, taking into account the Iceman's advice: The supports (I think) have prevented the delamination on the ends of the braces as far as I can tell - anyhow, they are now being UV'd under the lamp. I've also installed the port/stbd 3"/50 mount base plates, but as the yard birds are still at work tightening the bolts and touching up the welds, security won't allow any photos


Hank