The Ship Model Forum

Sept 2nd 2014

I�ve added detail to superstructure and deckhouse. A friend has pointed out that the fire hydrants and fire hose was not red on the wartime Frank Knox, but I�ve seen a few historical color photos that indicate otherwise, and I�ve taken so many liberties on this build already that I�ll just chalk it up as another example of how this model shows a general picture of the Gearing destroyer class, in several incarnations.

Not much to comment on outside of a few sidenotes: I used Gold Medal�s PE fire hydrants but they were so 2-dimensional that I glued left- and right- oriented hydrants back to back, to make them more 3-dimensional. The hydrants are scratch built from a little extra plastic and some �assorted handwheels� from GM�s Gearing PE. I improvised placement of some hydrants and other details.

Newbies take note: even small amounts of work like this takes hours and hours. You�re not doing anything wrong if it takes you months to finish a model ship!

Thats a sharp looking dazzle you got there!

Keep up the good work,
Matt

Thanks for the kind words, taskforce48.

I forgot to mention one possibly useful tip: I located a source for "mucilage" glue, the kind David Griffith recommends for attaching rigging, with the intention of using it for that purpose. But I discovered mucilage is also ideal for attaching small parts, where the attachment point doesn't need any structural strength - things like the PE bulkhead details.

Mucilage goes on clear and a little sticky, and even after it dries it is water soluble. I used it to attach the fog foam nozzles, for example, that I scratchbuilt out of PE railing and painted red before attaching. I simply daubed a thin layer of mucilage onto the bulkhead where the nozzles were to go, placed the nozzles on the glue while it was still wet, nudged the parts into place, then after the glue dried brushed on small amounts of water to remove the extra glue, daubing off the water with a second, dry, brush. A small amount of glue remained under the tiny PE parts, while the excess glue washed off completely, leaving no residue at all.

I imagine something similar could be done with white Elmers Glue, but the mucilage seems even more workable, and since it goes on clear, not white, it is a lot easier to see what you're doing throughout the whole process.

Oct 31st 2014

I�m looking ahead to rigging the ship. Since I�ve never done any detailed rigging before, I want to avoid as many problems as I can. So I came up with a plan that changes the order of build.

I know rigging lines will snag on every part of the ship as I try to rig it. So for now, I�m only adding subassemblies I need for the rigging - the two stacks, the forward mast, and maybe the tripod mast, if it becomes clear that it will be too difficult to add it afterwards. I�ll add the practice loaders and the searchlight platform later. I�m also leaving off some details of the subassemblies; things like the antennas on the rear stack.





These photos show where things stand now. I�m still bumping up against my lack of experience, and to other novices, I�ll give this advice: just because the advanced modellers here can make super-detailing look easy, that doesn�t mean it is easy. I�ve had to be satisfied with a slightly botched result, give up on a detail, or take shortcuts, a number of times - more, as time goes on.

Sometimes I wonder: will I ever, EVER finish this kit??

Case in point: I used the kit�s plastic depth charge racks, rather than struggle with the PE, which looks a little flimsy in the Gold Medal set. I used paint to detail the racks, and was happy with the result.

I did purchase some chain that was supposed to be correctly scaled to 1/350 anchor chain; for a battleship maybe, but it is a little over-scale for this destroyer. However, I did manage to create a simple representation of what my Gearing e-book shows: one anchor chain coming out of one chain pipe, wrapping around the capstan, then going to an anchor; the other chain being just a short length attached to the anchor at one end, and pinned to the deck at the other end, with a second chain securing it.




You can see that the �1/350� chain is really to big for the capstan and chain pipe, but I�ve got to move on.

PS: you can see the seam between the deck and the hull is uneven, another legacy of the struggle I had fitting the hull, deck and deckhouse together. Luckily the Gold Medal railings have netting along the bottom, which will cover the seam. I�ve seen other builders comment on the fitting problem with this Dragon kit, and I�ve resolved my next project will be something from Tamiya - their 1/700 Indianapolis had perfectly fitting parts.

I�m trying to devise a rigging scheme that is simple enough for me to execute, that is also reasonably accurate. I�m handicapped by the fact that I�m a casual modeler, and not very knowledgable. Ironically, a relative who�s recently retired Navy hasn�t been able to help me much, because the modern ships he served on are so different from these WWII ones.

I�ve created a visual guide to help me sort things out. In this schematic, the red lines are mast stays, the blue lines are halyards, and the green lines are antenna wires. I haven�t shown an additional antenna wire, that apparently is strung high above the front stack between the two lines that go from each end of the yardarm to the rear stack. A trailing wire hangs down from this crossover wire, and the trailing wire falls all the way to the flag bags, or thereabouts.

Dec 29, 2014

Some more helpful hints to novice modellers like myself.

With the two masts, I�m combining scratch building, the kit�s plastic parts, and the GMM photo etch. The kit�s plastic foremast seemed too flimsy to rig, so I filed a brass rod to a taper and soldered the GMM yardarm to it. I cut the platforms off the plastic mast and glued them to the brass mast. This seemed easier than making all those platforms from scratch.

I used the kit�s plastic tripod mast, rather than venture into something scratchbuilt. I reasoned that the tripod mast didn�t need any structural strength because there wouldn�t be any rigging attached. I also learned it�s easier to use a methodical approach when glueing delicate, sometimes slightly warped parts like these. Drawing guidelines to help me keep everything aligned, and securing one part with blue-tac lets you glue a few contacts, then when those set you can glue the other contacts that aren�t aligning correctly.



(I realize experienced modellers may be groaning over how elementary this is, but this might save newbies like myself a few headaches.)

I combined PE and plastic on some of the tripod mast. The kit�s plastic base for the TDY-1 antenna was better than the GMM PE, and the kit had a better-looking PE part for the back of the antenna, but I used GMM PE for the rest of it. The GMM set didn�t include the antenna on the top platform, so I used the kit�s base and improvised the PE using a spare floater net basket.

Experimented with the rigging a little. I attached the lines to the foremast before attaching the foremast to the ship. It seemed easier to do this and then transfer the whole assembly, keeping the lines in order with the blue-tac.



Everything in place, with rigging.

Looking real good...you are right, the pe railings will look great and hide the seems...keep the updates coming.
Doug B

Love it!

Hi, Bill, glad to see you are back at it. I thought you may have given up. Looking very good.

Johnno, 2 days ago I accidentally dropped the ship on my desk, bending the brass foremast yardarm into a pretzel, in the middle of all those lines that took me a week to rig, and breaking off parts of the tripod mast, too (the ship landed upside down). The yardarm is soldered to the brass mast, and the mast is embedded in a big hidden blob of body putty (I couldn't figure out any other way to securely attach the mast).

I almost did decide to shelve it, and just chalk this up as a practice model! I just wasn't sure I could go on - this build has been one of the longest, most difficult learning experiences I've ever encountered - college was easy, by comparison! Later, cooler heads prevailed, and I was able to carefully repair the damage - gently coaxing the brass yardarm back into shape, one millimeter at a time. The other broken parts only needed to be re-glued. Amazingly, I didn't have to re-rig the ship. All the lines survived intact! The ship looks the same as it did before I dropped it... some kind of miracle.

Amen for miracles! It's a fine build and it is gut-wrenching to think of it falling onto the mast.

Jan 25 2015

Frank Knox is finally armed. I�ve also done half the railings. There hasn�t been much remarkable about the recent detailed work, so I�m just postings these photos of the whole ship.


I wish I had a better camera. The zoom function only works on cloudy days when outdoor lighting is evenly diffused, and unfortunately (??) I live in southern California, where it�s sunny almost every day. Therefore photos like these are a little low-rez. I suppose one advantage is that my mistakes aren�t as easy to see this way.

One detail I can see in these photos that I am proud of is the antennas mounted to the rear stack. Even some seasoned modellers on this site used very out-of-scale material to represent these antennas, that I know from my Gearing e-book to be very thin indeed. After experimenting with wire, brass rod and styrene rod, I finally found that certain pieces of brass PE sprue were thin enough and stiff enough to represent the antennas. I mounted them to the stack with scrap PE, too, and the result fairly matches photos of the actual ship.

All that�s left now are the life rafts, the whaleboat, and some railing. I plan on adding some signal flags to the halyards, too, maybe some other flags, and will then create a simulation of water on the base....

Great looking build. Your camo pattern is very nicely rendered. I'm glad your model survived being dropped and didn't turn into just being a practice build.

Hi, Bill, she is really looking good. Now that details such as railings etc are going on. It looks like your 'work of art' is getting there.
Johnno

Great build!

Where'd you find the Mucilage?

If the link works, here is a discussion I had about the source for mucilage. Both sources I found are in or near Toronto, Canada. An art supply store and a daycare supply store.

If you read the whole discussion you'll see that somebody (I think) bought a case and may be selling bottles via the Trading Post page.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156132

BillThePill123 wrote:If the link works, here is a discussion I had about the source for mucilage. Both sources I found are in or near Toronto, Canada. An art supply store and a daycare supply store.

If you read the whole discussion you'll see that somebody (I think) bought a case and may be selling bottles via the Trading Post page.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156132

Thanks! I found some on Alibaba but sadly, you have to buy it by the ton...

Last time I checked even these sources in Toronto had a high minimum order, or a high minimum postage, which came out to the same thing... check out the link to the discussion that I had with some other people. I think the art store might be a better bet, because you could add other paint supplies to it to make the high postage less onerous. Or, you might want to go in on an order with other people.

Feb 8 2015

My Frank Knox is finally done... except for flags, signal flags, and sea surface.



The whaleboat is not in a historically accurate location. From my references, I�ve deduced that the awkward arrangement for the whaleboat on Frank Knox accommodated changes to the rear stack area. I was reluctant to use a historically accurate arrangement that would look odd to casual observers, the primary audience for this build. Plus, I could not figure out a reliable way to suspend the whaleboat from the davits, and in this new location I could use 2 supports under the whaleboat, and just add the davits afterwards. I am kind of exhausted at this point... and glad to find any workable solutions that help me finish this up.




There�s a local model show this month, and I�m going to enter this, if I can finish it in time.