Calling all FIGHTING MERCHANTMEN fans (not Liberty/Victory)

[Guido]

Take your time!

[Laurence Batchelor]

Duly emailed Guido

As an aside has anyone thought about modelling the oil tanker San Demetrio?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_San_Demetrio

She was famous enough to have a book and wartime film made of her and of course the convoy where the action took place also involved the Jervis Bay which won a VC that day.
I have the film on video and it is an excellent film made during the war.
It really showed the hardship of the merchant seaman and had good characterisation and sets.

http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/ ... index.html

[Guido]

Well received! Thank you!
SS San Demetrio is certainly one for the history books. Very tough to model the damaged ship, tough.

Guido

[Laurence Batchelor]

I'm not one for damaged ships, I was thinking more 'as sailed' from the USA

[Jim Smith]

Laurence,
Copy of the War machine 140 article to me please. Always on the lookout for this sort of info.
wifflesnoop@yahoo.co.uk

TIA

[Guido]

Progress pic posted at

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... c&start=15

Hope you like it! All construcive comments welcome!

Guido

[Edward Pinniger]

I'm thinking of starting work on the Revell 1/400 T2 tanker kit soon. This is the "Esso Glasgow" issue but includes all the parts necessary to build the ship as a WW2 tanker (only the decal sheet is different) which is what I'll be doing.
I'll be replacing much of the kit's detail with scratchbuilt and PE parts, but have a few questions:
- Other than the flat hull, is this kit a reasonably accurate representation of a T2 tanker?
- Did these ships commonly carry camouflage schemes on the Atlantic convoys, or were they more usually painted grey?
- Are there any references available on the names of these ships? Revell's original issue was named "Mission Capistrano", which I think was a fleet oiler.

Regarding the San Demetrio, I'm fairly certain I have some photos of the model of this ship (in damaged condition) at the Imperial War Museum - I'll upload them if anyone is interested (assuming I can find them)

[Rob]

Epinniger - here's a couple of useful links:

http://www.t2tanker.org/

http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org11-2.htm

I built my T2 as a post-war Esso vessel.

Cheers,

Rob

[Guido]

Hello, gentlemen!
What greys do you recommend for 1943 "Standard Fast" cargo liners?
Guido

[Rob]

Guido,

Shot in the dark, but I think you are looking at either a medium or light grey. Either 507B or 507C. I think I've got a reference for them somewhere.

Give me a day or so to double check.

Cheers,

Rob

[Guido]

Aye!
No rush here! Take you time! Have a look at
http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... c&start=30

You can see, I am FAR from starting to paint.
Cheers,
Guido

[Rob]

Guido - colours were most likely (pre 1941) AP507C verticals and AP507A horizontals as the standard but there would be variation on this.

For example anything lease-lend would probably retain an American scheme.

Later war, MS (merchant ship) greys were adopted. MSL (merchant ship light) for verticals and MSD (merchant ship dark) for horizontals.

Also some ships wore a combinration of MSL and MSD with a dark band of MSD above the boot topping, similair to USN Measure 12(?).

As regards MSL and MSD in b/w photos they don't look a lot different from 507C and 507A, but I suspect John Snyder or Alan Raven will give you a much better answer than this.

Cheers,

Rob

[Guido]

Honestly, a fair approximation will do nicely. I am clearly one of those opposing the colour GeStaPo: I think there's no absolute right or wrong when it comes to colour coats used under war condition. Of cause "by the book" you can be on or off, no doubt. However, what was actually used to paint the ships might very much deviate from the book. I'll be looking into the MSL and MSD, but in�the end I'll likely be going for 507a, b, c. after wear, tear and weathering it won't matter that much.
Thanks for the tips!
Guido

[Graham Boak]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread with a few questions.

The Niko CAM ship is Empire Darwin: what else can be done with this kit. Sisterships?

An earlier suggestion was to model the San Demetrio - I'd have thought Ohio a more significant choice. I considered this a while ago: Ohio was very similar to the only slightly later T2. The hull is much the same, with sightly modified superstructure but rather different deck furniture which put me off trying it. Has anyone else considered this?

[Freighter]

Graham,
The Niko Empire Darwin is a good base for many merchant ships pre, wartime and post war given that is based on a 'standard' design (Doxford type) freighter. Some of these ships were still operational into the 60's.

If you want to do a little kitbashing the opportunities are many.

Here's my kitbash, taking the HP Models Empire freighter and making it a 1929 NYK 'Maru'

http://www.finewaterline.com/pages/gall ... suruga.htm

Jim S

[Graham Boak]

Yes, I did have some gentle kitbashing in mind, although I am a little reluctant to do much with resin kits. The main problem is a lack of information on British merchant ships. I'm willing to buy appropriate books, but I don't know where to start on finding the most appropriate ones. Did the Empire Darwin even have a direct sister, the same as the Niko kit but lacking the catapult? I have found the yardbooks for Gray's, but they are difficult to read online and I haven't yet had the patience to plough through them all in search of a twin, only finding smaller vessels.

This problem may have been solved indirectly, as I've recently obtained the Iwashige book on modelling Japanese merchants. There is much inspiration in there for minor changes to the Skywave kits (although several vessels are irritatingly a little short), more significant changes to the Hasegawa, and a very ambitious plan for the Aosima into a smaller AMC! I do wonder if the Skywave tanker might not be a better starting point for some of the earlier subjects, even as a rather different approach (perhaps) to your own subject.

[ar]

See British Ocean Tramps Volumes one and two, by Thomas, published by Waine Research Publications.
You will not be disappointed.

Yes, I did have some gentle kitbashing in mind, although I am a little reluctant to do much with resin kits. The main problem is a lack of information on British merchant ships. I'm willing to buy appropriate books, but I don't know where to start on finding the most appropriate ones. Did the Empire Darwin even have a direct sister, the same as the Niko kit but lacking the catapult? I have found the yardbooks for Gray's, but they are difficult to read online and I haven't yet had the patience to plough through them all in search of a twin, only finding smaller vessels.

This problem may have been solved indirectly, as I've recently obtained the Iwashige book on modelling Japanese merchants. There is much inspiration in there for minor changes to the Skywave kits (although several vessels are irritatingly a little short), more significant changes to the Hasegawa, and a very ambitious plan for the Aosima into a smaller AMC! I do wonder if the Skywave tanker might not be a better starting point for some of the earlier subjects, even as a rather different approach (perhaps) to your own subject.

[Graham Boak]

Yes, I have the Waines Collier book and am very impressed - Loose Cannon were intending to produce some collier kits but they haven't appeared as yet. The main question I have is whether the tramp ships would be mainly older vessels, with more modern ships operated by shipping lines?

[ar]

Obtain the two volumes that I mentioned.

Yes, I have the Waines Collier book and am very impressed - Loose Cannon were intending to produce some collier kits but they haven't appeared as yet. The main question I have is whether the tramp ships would be mainly older vessels, with more modern ships operated by shipping lines?

[PetrOs]

Hey

I guess I shall double the Ar's tip - I got my vol. 1 yesterday, and it is fantastic!