The Ship Model Forum

Great build EP! But what a heartbreaking pity that you don't do it with R/C and full hull...

Would be interesting if they (Velox and B-110) meet on the pond...like they could have met at Jutland...

Torpedo wrote:Great build EP! But what a heartbreaking pity that you don't do it with R/C and full hull...

Would be interesting if they (Velox and B-110) meet on the pond...like they could have met at Jutland...

I agree - however I'm still very much of a novice to scratchbuilding and even more of a novice with R/C ships (I just have a couple of cheap RTR models). One day I definitely intend to scratchbuild a full-hull, working R/C model. I was planning to do this with the 1/35 MTB, but this seemed too difficult for a beginner project, as the vacformed plastic hull is so flimsy.

(HMTBD Velox was actually mined a year before Jutland, and being an old design was mainly confined to coastal operations anyway, though)

Thanks for the link RickF, interesting details about "linoleom" use on deck and difference between wood decks colors .

Hi EP,

don't be afraid of R/C. Its so easy today and will cost you less than �200. Your work with styrene and tiny stuff is MUCH more difficult!

If you need any help, just give me your number and we call each other for further advise. And running with small fast TBDs is really FUN!!!

Looks great, i love the way you made the funnels!

Hi EP ,

I just have the same comments as Torpedo ...

I admire the way you build your boats , inspiring !

Cheers ,

Laurent

EP:

Nice work on your scratch build! Clean and looking very accurate. You've inspired my to jump start my Velox.

I started with the fittings-patterns for an HMS Velox in 1/72 for R/C about 3 years ago. First in the mill were the master patterns for casting up a set of LH and RH props for HMS Velox in 1/72nd. You can see the process here if you are interested:

http://wmunderway.8m.com/cont/propmaster/propmaster.htm

The cowl vents are in process now. How are you forming yours? There seem to be 3-4 distinct types. Have you noticed?

I have seen photos of what appears to be a builders model of Velox in an antique shop in the UK, some years ago. They were kind enough to sent photos of it.

PS, John Haynes did a nice HMS Velox in 1/96th, you can see a small photo on his site.

Mr. Wizard.

Gearing FRAM DD (on the ways now, Gallery 50 at the above site).
RMS Mauretania
HMS Velox
Zwarte Zee

Thanks for the comments - I was wondering if anyone else had built or was building this ship, as the Chathams book is widely available HMS Velox is the most obvious choice for scratchbuilding a RN TBD. I'd certainly be very interested to see your work so far, and the antique shop model if you have the photos in digital form (what scale is it?)

Mr. Wizard wrote:EP:
The cowl vents are in process now. How are you forming yours? There seem to be 3-4 distinct types. Have you noticed?

I'll be using adapted commercial fittings (Graupner etc.) for some of the vents, including the large boiler intakes if possible, others will be made using the "quick and easy" method using styrene tube, which aren't totally accurate in appearance, but all the methods I know of scratchbuilding accurate cowl vents are very difficult and time-consuming. (All the vents on Cerberus were made using this method).
The "mushroom" vents on the deck will be made using copper domed rivets, filed flat on top (available from model engineering/model steam engine suppliers, these rivets are inexpensive and can be adapted for scratchbuilding all sorts of fittings)

Looking good !!

EPinniger wrote:I was wondering if anyone else had built or was building this ship, as the Chathams book is widely available HMS Velox is the most obvious choice for scratchbuilding a RN TBD.

I didn't want to encroach on your thread Edward, but since you asked...

I built this model about 10 years ago, right after I got the book. It's all built of sheet plastic and shapes, much like yours. I also used a lot of Bluejacket fittings, particularily for the ventilators.











Since you're doing a waterline model you don't have to worry about those incredibly spindly propeller shafts!

Not my kind of thing ship wise but two beautiful scratch builds

John

Very nice work, Steve! You and EP have given a standard to achieve for my 1/72nd scale RC velox.

Mr. Wizard

Steve Sobieralski wrote: I built this model about 10 years ago, right after I got the book. It's all built of sheet plastic and shapes, much like yours. I also used a lot of Bluejacket fittings, particularily for the ventilators.

Looks very impressive! I don't think my build will be up to this standard - but at least it gives me something to aim for.
What materials and techniques did you use to make the hull? I'd like to try scratchbuilding a full-hull model, but am not sure of the best way to go about it. (I don't mind using wood or other non-plastic materials if necessary, though I prefer to use styrene for the superstructure and surface detail)
I also have a couple of questions about the paint scheme - I see you've painted the hull strake and the sides of the engine-house roof grey, where did you find the information on this? Also, are all the vent interiors painted red?

I resumed work on Velox yesterday, after a month or so's delay (mostly due to modelling time been taken up by kit building rather than scratch building) so will post some more photos soon. I've started work on the searchlight platform, amidships, compass platform, vents, aft steering position (I made the shield for this a while ago) and rudder/tiller area.

Actually I was thinking that your build is going to be better than mine as I did not bother with the rigols, door hinges and handles and other details that you are doing.

I built my hull by the "plank on bulkhead" method using sheet plastic. The keel backbone and bulkheads were pretty thick material, about 1/8" if I remember correctly and the "planks", which extended from the keel to the deck line were about .020". I have a few progress photots of the hull construction that I will post if I can find them.

I believe the color scheme was right out of the book, or maybe the color rendering on the dust jacket (I'm on vacation at the moment so I can't check for sure). I remember reading something that the official color scheme for these ships was overall black, but that captains were allowed to paint some areas gray as long as they had enough black paint available on board to paint them out quickly if required for combat. All the ventilator throats are painted red.

Steve Sobieralski wrote: I built my hull by the "plank on bulkhead" method using sheet plastic. The keel backbone and bulkheads were pretty thick material, about 1/8" if I remember correctly and the "planks", which extended from the keel to the deck line were about .020". I have a few progress photots of the hull construction that I will post if I can find them.

I believe the color scheme was right out of the book, or maybe the color rendering on the dust jacket (I'm on vacation at the moment so I can't check for sure). I remember reading something that the official color scheme for these ships was overall black, but that captains were allowed to paint some areas gray as long as they had enough black paint available on board to paint them out quickly if required for combat. All the ventilator throats are painted red.

Interesting - I didn't realise the plank-on-bulkhead method would work with styrene, I assumed it'd be too hard to sand everything down smooth, and also that it would be very difficult to get the "planks" to conform to the right shape, unless they were very thin-gauge styrene. (What does .020" translate to in millimetres?) I'd certainly be interested to see the construction photos if you can find them!

Thanks for the advice on the paint colours. I think this is covered in some detail in the book, so I'll have to re-read it later (not that I'll be adding the final coat of paint for some time...).

One other comment, I noticed your very impressive scratchbuild of HMS Abdiel on http://smmlonline.com/ the other day. Interestingly, this is a ship I've also always wanted to build (after seeing the colour profile in the book "Encylopedia of the World's Warships". I think I need more scratchbuilding practice (and storage/display space) before attempting something this large and complex though.

Anyway, here's what I've added to the build over the last few days:


The tiller and the fittings for the steering chain. These are somewhat simplified as they will be mostly hidden beneath the aft platform.


The shield for the aft steering position. This protected the crew from spray (at least to some extent...) and presumably also the blast from the aft 12pdr gun. Made from 0.5mm sheet, the porthole surrounds are made from copper wire using the method described earlier.
The rectangular object the shield sits on is the housing for the rudder chains, which pass through the ports at either end, and (on the real ship; my model won't have functioning steering gear!) are connected to the wheel. As well as a ship's wheel, the steering position also has binnacles and other instruments, all yet to be added.


The aft platform is raised about a foot and a half above the deck. I assume its main purpose was to allow crew to walk on this area without getting entangled in the steering gear, as the only equipment fitted to it is a storage locker (not added yet). The plans don't indicate what the platform is made of, so I decided on wood planks (as with the forward bridge/gun platform) although it's possible that it is a grating, as shown in the drawings of HMS Havock. The platform is made from 0.5mm sheet covered in Slaters 3mm plank-textured styrene. It isn't glued to the deck yet, as I need to paint this area and add the steering chain first.


Engine house skylights/hatches. These are built up from styrene sheet with the portholes drilled out and glazed.


Work started on the searchlight platform, which goes on the aft end of the bridge platform. The conical supporting pillar is rather simplified, it is made from 4 lengths of styrene strip - it should actually be a cone with cutouts, but I wasn't sure how to make a cone of precise dimensions from styrene sheet; once the railings are installed it should look OK.
A similar platform is fitted amidships on the engine house roof, this will house a binnacle/compass stand. I'm not sure why a third compass was needed, as there is already one at each steering position; can anyone enlighten me on this?

The next stage is the vents (of which there are a lot, of at least 5-6 different sizes) - more photos soon hopefully!

Hi EP

Also, are all the vent interiors painted red?

I had a long discussion on that in a german forum and researched a lot of pictures for it. I believe they were all red, as this was and is still the colour for intakes and vents. What is not quite clear is the colour of the grills, which could be grey as well. Mine will be painted red.

This is my "quick and easy" method of making cowl vents. The parts produced with this method aren't really accurate in shape (for most ships at least), but look passable when painted + fitted on the model,


First cut a length of styrene tube of the right diameter and about 25% longer than the height of the vent. Cut a short length off the end of tube at a 45 degree angle (a multi-angle "guillotine" cutter, as shown, is very useful for this - alternatively you can use a saw and a mitre box).


After cleaning up the cut surfaces, glue them back together the other way round, forming an L-shaped tube. Once the glue has set, measure and cut the ends to the right length.



Finally, file and sand the "elbow" of the L-shape until it is curved. It's a good idea to use fairly heavy-gauge styrene tube otherwise you will end up sanding through the plastic at the corner - the vent opening can be thinned out with a knife blade to give a more in-scale thickness.


Here are all (or most of) the cowl vents to be added to the ship. The 2 large ones are the boiler air intakes, and are fitted between the funnels; the others admit air into the ship's interior spaces (the larger ones are for the engine room, and the 2 tall ones are either side of the conning tower). The interiors of the vents have all been painted (red!), so they're ready to add to the model.
There are 4 medium-sized vents I haven't made yet, as I don't have any styrene tube of the right diameter. There are also many "mushroom" vents of various sizes, which will be added later.


Steam pipes and handrails added to the funnels. The pipes are aluminium tube - this is available in smaller diameters than styrene tube, and can be bent into complex shapes with less risk of buckling or snapping.


Overall view of the model. Still a lot to be done, but it is starting to take shape.

Next to be done are the fittings and ground tackle on the "turtleback".

The cowl vents - all 30 of them! - are now fitted to the deck. Also added are the mushroom vents amidships. The larger ones are adapted commercial fittings, the smaller one is made from a styrene washer sanded into shape. Some smaller mushroom vents still need to be added, these will be made from copper dome rivets (see below)


Work in progress on the torpedo tubes, two of which are carried by HMS Velox, on turntable mounts aft. Made from Evergreen styrene tube, these aren't quite finished yet. The domed end caps are made from copper boiler rivets - these are available from model steam engine/model engineering suppliers and are a great source of dome shapes in all sizes (they're also surprisingly inexpensive, a bag of 30-40 of the large rivets cost me about �2.50)


The master for the 6-pounder guns (3 of these are needed) and its mount, pedestal and shoulder rest. The breech is made by drilling a large hole in a short length of square styrene rod, then cutting out one of the sides of the square with a sharp knife, producing a U-shaped hole.


The master for the 12-pounder gun, which will be mounted on the forward platform above the conning tower. This is a more complex assembly, including a telescopic sight. The gun has an old-fashioned hinged breech mechanism instead of the sliding breech seen on the 6-pounders.
I don't really need to cast copies of this item, as Velox only has one, but I thought it would be useful to produce more for future projects; I assume these guns were carried by other Royal Navy ships of this period.


The master for the binnacle (compass stand) - there are 3 of these, one on the bridge, one at the aft steering position, and one on a platform amidships. It's made from bits of sprue and washers left over from kits - the iron balls are made from small rounded sprue tabs.

Hopefully in a few days I should have some photos of the metal castings made from these masters; however, moulding and casting parts is not exactly an area I'm skilled at so don't be surprised if it's a week or more!

Superb project . What suprised me is how sea worthy these TBD were given their narrow beam . If my memory serves me right Velox had multiple props, 8 I think . That could pose some problems for an R/C version. It's good to see this project as there are to few models of RN destroyers of the period particulary the A,B C and Ds . Did Velox have an all black livery ?
Dave Wooley