Calling all USS Saratoga CV-3 fans

[lvsquarerigger]

Hi Rob,

Don't know if you have Stearns' book on the class but he gives a listing of the '42 Sara refit as follows:
When Saratoga left the yard in Bremerton in late May 1942, she carried, as well as the sixteen 5in/38s, a total of nine 1.1 quadruple mountings, ( the five that were there before and one each on the 5in gun sponsons) and 32 20mm single mountings disposed as follows: four(two on each side) in afterward extensions of the bow 1.1in sponsons; six in single gun tubs at flight deck level on the starboard side of the funnel; four in a gallery at the port edge of the flight deck, centered on frame 91, across the flight deck from the forward edge of the funnel; four in a similar gallery centered on frame 129, across the flight deck from n. 3 5in twin mounting; four in a gallery on the starboard edge of the flight deck at frame 150, aft of no.4 5in twin mounting; eight along the flight deck aft, four on each side, centered on frame 203; and two in single guntubs facing aft under the flight deck round-down.

Then in August of '42":

It was clear the 1.1's would be replaced by Bofors at the first opportunity. The Japanese provided this by torpedoing her in August '42, sending her back to the yard at Pearl. No structural changes were made. The nine 1.1s were replaced with an equal number of 40mm quads, together with the five new Mk 51 directors, replacing the earlier directors used with the 1.1s. The big change however, was the further increase in 20mm battery, now 52 in single mountings, arranged as follows: nine in a continuous gallery outboard of the funnel at flight deck level (replacing the six there previously); four (two on each side) at the bow as before; seven in individual guntubs on the port side, between the 5in sponson and the existing midships port side gallery, centered on frame 72; six in the midships port gallery, the existing gallery being extended aft to add two mountings; four in the second port gallery, as before; four in the existing starboard gallery aft of no. 4 5in mounting; Two in the starboard side boat pocket, directly below the existing starboard gallery; Twelve aft along the flight deck, eight as before with three more added to the starboard side by extending that sponson aft and one more added to port in a single guntub; and four (Two on each side) right aft at the round-down.

This would have been her fit at the time you require. There is a photo I could post but it's only about a third of a page so don't know how clear it would be but will do so if you want it.

James

[Rob Jansen]

Thank you James,

Yes I do have the Stern, but I'm going to have to look again and see how I missed that paragraph I guess.

My real concern is with the 20mm tubs/mounts on the port side as they were virtually all removed in 1944. I've seen the same crappy overhead shots of the Sara in late 42' that are available on line and in the Squadron Book (better than either Stern or Fry for pictures...My subjective opinion ).

By far the most radical changes came in the 42' PSNS (or at that time NYPS) so my drawings of the 44' fill in a lot of the blanks...the Trumpeter Lexington is a good choice for a heavy conversion huh? LOL pretty much rebuilding that island no matter which ship or year!!!

Again enjoy your post and hope to see that ship completed soon!

[GMG4RWF]

Just mounted & painted my 2400scale resin Lex. & Sarah. - painted them med grey with tan deck & Navy Base.

[Rob Jansen]

I hope no one minds my asking; but I'm curious about references I have found that indicate that the "Yellow-Wing" markings with the Silver Aluminum lacquer paint was revised to Lt Gray but retaining the section/ ship colors sometime late prior to the overall Lt gray? I really can't find any info on this and am going w/ Silver anyway; however I'm just curious. Thanks for any input someone might have.

[Tracy White]

I haven't heard of any transitional scheme, but there was a point earlier in the 1930s where the Navy was having troubles finding a suitably robust silver paint to match the doped canvas surfaces - metal surfaces were painted a light gray color for a time according to my references.

[abledog1]

Back in the days of mahogany-stained flight decks: what color was the round down? what color was the windscreen (palisades)?

[MartinJQuinn]

Back in the days of mahogany-stained flight decks: what color was the round down? what color was the windscreen (palisades)?

I believe they were dark gray.

[Tracy White]

I believe they were dark gray.

Color photos of Enterprise suggest flight deck wood and metal tie-downs were maroon, and expansion joints and other larger metal structures were deck gray. At least, for the time it was painted for the movie "Dive Bomber:"

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/28 ... 1a27d.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/47 ... 2c41f.html

The palisades are sort-of visible in this photo, but behind a lot of sailors and hard to determine the color of:
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/d9 ... 44d42.html

[Gernot]

In the new Tamiya CV-3 Saratoga kit, there are 4 Hellcat nightfighters and 4 radar-equipped Avengers included.
I've done some searches and not found any aircraft sets that include these types (l'Arsenal makes F6F sets, and Trumpeter has sets including F6F and TBF/TBM; however, neither are radar-equipped versions). While I expect that Tamiya may in future release aircraft sets with these new types, does anyone currently produce plastic or resin radar-equipped versions of these two aircraft types?

[ModelMonkey]

Seeking any information on the flight deck planking pattern, especially the bow, for post 1944 refit but prior to Kamikaze repairs.

Thanks so much and best wishes to all!

[Mikevpd]

Gents,

I am faced with a conundrum and I need your assistance.

I am building one of Tamiya's new USS Saratoga kits and am almost at the decal stage. I have painted the flight deck Lifecolor Flight Deck Stain #21, only to discover that the decals provided for deck markings are very nearly the exact same color. I was under the impression that Saratoga carried white deck markings during the period depicted by the kit (1945), and the marking instructions depict them as being white, except for the black flight deck numbers which are lacking altogether.
Am I wrong, or have I missed something?

In case I need to replace these, can anyone recommend a good source for white 1/700 scale carrier deck markings?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

[Steve]

The new Tamiya kit shows the starboard line of openings (at hanger deck level?) closed. Trumpeter's kits show them open. What was used to close these openings and was it permanent or a rollup or accordion type?

[Tracy White]

Doors, intakes for the engines. Open when running, possibly closed at dock
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020323.jpg (steaming)
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020205.jpg (at anchor but steaming to provide power)

[jabarry]

Beautiful Sara. You'd think after all this time I would just take his work for granted, but I am awestruck every time - and the speed that he must work???!!!!!

Mod Edit: added link to Kostas' Sara: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

[MartinJQuinn]

Gents,

I am faced with a conundrum and I need your assistance.

I am building one of Tamiya's new USS Saratoga kits and am almost at the decal stage. I have painted the flight deck Lifecolor Flight Deck Stain #21, only to discover that the decals provided for deck markings are very nearly the exact same color. I was under the impression that Saratoga carried white deck markings during the period depicted by the kit (1945), and the marking instructions depict them as being white, except for the black flight deck numbers which are lacking altogether.
Am I wrong, or have I missed something?

In case I need to replace these, can anyone recommend a good source for white 1/700 scale carrier deck markings?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

Gold Medal Models makes a set of 700th Carrier Decals, and the flight deck markings and numbers are a prominent part of the set. The dashes are white (IIRC), and the numbers are black, and should work fine for you. I used the numbers on my 700th Fujimi Saratoga that I build some years ago:

[Mikevpd]

Martin,

Thanks, I will definitely give the GMM decal set a try.

Looking at Alan Raven's US Ship Camouflage site, it appears what Tamiya did was use 251N for their Saratoga's flight deck markings, which would have been great if I had painted the deck in a darker stain color.

They'd be good markings for a late 1941-early 1943 flight deck, though.

Thanks again for the help.

[ModelMonkey]

Need some help here, fellas. Please check my interpretation and understanding of what I am seeing in photos of the four funnel caps as they appeared post 1941 refit (plans aren't much help here).

In trying to replicate the very interesting, 3D appearance of the funnel's uptake exhaust caps, photos suggest that the exhaust grills ("Grand Arches") on the actual ship are much more complex than the simplified, 2D, flat grills depicted by Fujimi, Trumpeter and Tamiya kits. The kits' part looks basically like a flat eight-spoked cap over a completely open uptake trunk.

But photos of the actual ship (see one below) indicate that the eight-spoked cap is actually composed of two parts, one arched in a curve over the other, the lower one cross-shaped, the upper one oriented diagonally, and the two parts only connected along the periphery of the uptake.

Part 1. The lower part may actually not be a grill at all, rather, the four uptakes may be divided into four vertical chambers and what the kit manufacturers simply depict as a grate is actually the tops of the four partitions which meet in the center of the uptake in the shape of a cross (when looking down upon it).

Part 2. Arching over that is an eight-spoked grill, oriented diagonally (an "X") when looking down on it, composed of tubular pipes, attached at the corners of the uptake, rising in a gentle curve above the partitions and meeting at the center of the uptake (when looking down upon it). There appears to be a circular disc of some kind where they meet at the center. There also may be a post holding up the center of the arching diagonal X-shaped grill from the center of the cross-shaped partitions.

Thoughts?

The first person to accurately describe the actual cap wins the Internet. I promise.

[Dick J]

In general terms, stacks of the period had individual uptakes for each boiler. For example, the New Orleans class cruisers had 8 boilers and 2 stacks. Each stack was divided into quarters internally making one pipe to the top of the stack for each boiler. I would presume that the Lexingtons were no different. 16 boilers and 4 stacks would indicate each stack divided into quarters.

[Tracy White]

Dick's correct. The * shape is a framework for the cloth funnel caps to lay on when an uptake wasn't to be used for a while. I'm not sure if you've seen this since they moved it, but there's a set of CV-3 Booklet of General Plans here that is of very little help in this question other than showing what looks like a line through each uptake that might be a splitter. It might also be an open trunk as well; I don't have any carrier plans that show this detail.

Best photo I can find is on page 100 of David Doyle's USS Saratoga "Squadron at Sea" book (a good buy but I'm admittedly biased as I helped provide photos and proof-read it):

Here we see the asterisk-ish top grate with at least a + shape below it, although it also appears that there's some smaller pieces dividing the trunk into quarters length wise.

[ModelMonkey]

Dick and Tracy win the Internet!

Thanks, men, that's exactly the information I needed. I'll detail my build with individual uptakes for each boiler and place a grating for a cloth cover above the exhausts.

Doyle's book with Tracy's research is a big help with my build.