Calling all USS Saratoga CV-3 fans

[Tracy White]

David did the research - I just gave him all the photos I had scanned in. He does an excellent job of learning about the subjects he writes about.

[ModelMonkey]

Great book. Highly recommended. Well done.

[anj4de]

In the new Tamiya CV-3 Saratoga kit, there are 4 Hellcat nightfighters and 4 radar-equipped Avengers included.
I've done some searches and not found any aircraft sets that include these types (l'Arsenal makes F6F sets, and Trumpeter has sets including F6F and TBF/TBM; however, neither are radar-equipped versions). While I expect that Tamiya may in future release aircraft sets with these new types, does anyone currently produce plastic or resin radar-equipped versions of these two aircraft types?

Here in Germany we can order sprues of Tamiya kits seperately! Have just done that on some tank parts...So once my "Sister Sara" arrives I will order a couple of Airwing sprues extra...

cheers
Uwe

[ModelMonkey]

This might make an interesting diorama.

[ModelMonkey]

The Weekly summaries of aircraft locations just list Saratoga at Pearl Harbor with no aircraft assigned in late October and November. Early October is a data format that's pretty useless, but they do show that VFN-106 was as Pearl Harbor with 16 aircraft (they don't list types, which is why this data format is pretty useless)

Need some help with aircraft air group markings. I've started painting the conning tower and funnel for my October, 1944 Sara in Ms.32 11A and have to start thinking about aircraft aboard and their markings. If I understand Tracy's report, VFN-106 was at Pearl and may have operated from her for training in October.

Fry's book on pages 144-145 lists the following air groups or squadrons as having landed aboard Sara while conducting training:

-October 1st: Air Groups 3 and 81
-October 2nd: Air Groups 4 (USS Ranger), 81, 82, and 90
-October 3rd: Air Group 4 (USS Ranger); VB-4 had four SB2C-4 crashes that day and VB-81 had one Helldiver crash into the number 4 gun gallery - possible dramatic flight deck scene on the model!
-October 4th: Air Group 3, VC-82 and VC-83
-October 12th: Air Groups 80 and 100 (CVG-100 a training group??)
-October 13th: Air Group 80 with one SB2C-4 crash into the stack - another dramatic modeling opportunity
-October 14th: USS Clark collided with Sara on the port side
-October 16th: unspecified units
-October 18th: Air Group 4 (USS Ranger)
-October 19th: CVLG 45
-October 20-21: unspecified units
-October 25th: CVLG 45 and CVG 100
-October 26-31: unspecified units
-November 1st: drydocked for collision repairs and repainted Ms.21.

In comparison, sources indicate that when Yorktown CV-10 was forward deployed at the same time, and air groups rotated to and from the carrier, the aircraft in their distinctive Yorktown markings remained on ship and just the personnel rotated. This is probably not the case for Sara at Pearl; Fry strongly implies that in his narrative, that the air groups operating for training were flying their own air group's aircraft out of Pearl and landed aboard Sara and then took off from the ship the same day.

I'm leaning towards CVG-4 off of USS Ranger, with perhaps some VFN-106 Hellcats but welcome your suggestions or any other group whose markings are well-enough known to be able to replicate. So, what were the markings for these groups/squadrons? Please help me find the proper markings for the CVGs' aircraft you suggest.

[Tracy White]

Well, on October 3 1944 CVG-4 is listed as:
50 F6F-3
21 SB2C-1C
19 TBF/M-1C

All would be in tri-color. They're reported as being based in Hilo (big island). That same report lists CVG-3 as being attached to Saratoga, however, with the planes based at Kahului (Maui) and the carrier at Pearl. CVG-3 was composed as follows:

35 F6F-5
2 F6F-3P
18 SBW-3 (SB2C-3 Helldiver built by Canadian Car & Foundry)
18 TBM-1C

The F6F-3P and TBM-1Cs were most likely in Tri-Color, I need to check on the SB2C-3 models. I'll see what I can do on the squadrons later.... PM inbound the next free moment I get.

[ModelMonkey]

Either CVG-3 or -4 works for me! Thanks!

Jeesh, they were still operating SB2C-1s at that date. I had thought most of those were set out to pasture or rebuilt to -3 or -4 standards by then due to serious problems experienced by early units.

[Tracy White]

Well, note that CAG-4 is also using early Hellcats and Avengers as well. It was common for training units to get the old, hard ridden birds. I was working on CV-38's air group history recently and it was the same thing; they were all really early planes until just before her shakedown and THEN they got a refresh. The Pacific had a lot of well-used planes they could ship back to Hawaii and use while the new ones were forwarded to the front.

[londonlogik]

anyone heard this?
http://www.tamiyausa.com/coming-soon/pl ... toga-25179
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10321584

[Timmy C]

Yup.

[Timmy C]

Here's a glimpse of the Tamiya special edition with Pontos' PE set: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10321584

[ryanb]

Any idea if the Pontos detail set will be available separately?

[Timmy C]

Dunno, but Five Star has a set in case, though lacking brass masts: http://freetimehobbies.com/1-700-five-s ... iya-31713/

[Mike W]

Does anyone know if there's going to be a more basic etch set for the Tamiya Saratoga? I'm looking for something on a par with the GMM set for the Trumpy Lex.

thanks
Mike

[Mike W]

Found one, Tom's Modelworks do a set for the Tamiya Saratoga, exactly what I'm after!

thanks
Mike

[VMIalpha454]

Can anyone tell me whether the front of the flight deck was mahogany colored or yellow during the early/mid 30's? In a lot of the pictures it looks lighter than the rest of the deck but I can't tell if it is reflected sunlight or actually a lighter color. The part I am asking about is the foreward most part of the flight deck, where it rounds down to the bow. Thanks.

[Tracy White]

where it rounds down to the bow.

"Round down" is actually the correct colloquial term. Saratoga's flight deck was squared off with no round downs until late 1941 - my belief is that she came out of this period with the deck stained blue and not Mahogany.

[VMIalpha454]

It's definitely not blue deck stain during the period I'm talking about. The linked photo shows the area in question, where the flight deck merges into the bow. Various pictures give different impressions, but it looks to me to be one of three colors: gray (hull color), yellow, or mahogany (with some sort of glare).

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020310.jpg

[Tracy White]

I have no proof, but my gut tells me it's yellow. It's far too light to be Mahogany, and I see the same appearance on Lexington. I haven't been able to find any good shots that show both wing tops and this stripe to see if the tone is the same. In my research, I haven't come across any documents yet that talk about deck markings other than one on paint colors, so I can't speak with any authority as to what the Navy said to do. That said, I know that they were experimenting with landing planes on the bow from the class, while steaming astern, so it makes sense that they would want some form of demarcation/warning for the transition.

[VMIalpha454]

I think I am going to split the difference. Yellow along the flight deck's edge and then where the bow tapers go back to the hull color. Thanks, Tracy.