Calling all Wickes-class & Clemson-class "Four-Piper" fans

[JCRAY]

HR's stuff never fails to disapoint. I've had a lot over the years & can be used after reworking. Only game in town. Low expectations...

[Timmy C]

Check out the build threads in the Scratchbuilding section of the forum - HR products is mentioned in a few of those, and almost always in a negative light.

[lucasner]

Did this class have a retractable sonar dome? I've got my model, dozens and dozens of internet photos, and the Floating Drydock plans are on the way. Time to dig into the small details, right?
Thanks,
Dave

[PetrOs]

I just got the new Flyhawk Ward kit, and I thought I would be interested to convert her to one of the asiatic fleet Clemsons. However, being mainly a pre-dread builder, I am not really sure how far the external differences between Wickes and Clemsons were (I know of internal differences...).

[steviecee]

the biggest visual differences are the portholes along the deck house in the center, the bridge funnel appearance and height and the search light position. find photos first before you build.

[PetrOs]

Okay... however with the portholes, looking through the asiatic fleet Clemson's photos, I can see the number of portholes midships being different, from ship to ship and also on the same ship, too...And also per side...

Were there any Wickes class destroyers ever allocated to the asiatic fleet between the wars? Or maybe is there any TROM-like page for all of them? I just have a small prewar harbor diorama in my head, with a freighter or tanker, 4 stacker, some british destroyer (either V or E from Tamiya), and maybe something else (or alternatively, Hikawa Maru in her civil livery and a 4 stacker...)

[Rick E Davis]

Get Dave McComb's updated version of John Dickey's book "A FAMILY SAGA" (Merriam Press, available at Amazon) which covers the careers of the Flush-Decker Destroyers including a list of units deployed to the Far East that served on the "China Station" and Asiatic Fleet. And yes there are some WICKES class units there.

[PetrOs]

Thanks! Unluckily, my search revealed that the book is not available in any german library... looks like I might need to buy it. Reading the destroyerhistory website however, I realized that many Wickes class ships were in Black Sea in 20-22 time frame, that would make some very interesting possibilities! Like showing it with some russian, french, and english destroyers, showing design school differences. Maybe also a greek or turkish one...

[Rick E Davis]

You will need to study images of subject WICKES-CLEMSON class units in 1920-22 era. The class was built to different configurations as time progressed. The first units had an "OPEN-BRIDGE" with only canvas covers. That was fairly quickly altered to the enclosed bridge seen on later photos and as-built on units built after the first units. Also, the whole class falls into groups based on the building yard and plans used to build them. The book "A FAMILY SAGA" covers those groups along with giving a fairly good view of operational service during the 1920s-1946. The aft 4-in gun was originally on the main deck, but then was moved to atop the aft deckhouse, again on units original built with it on the main deck and during construction for later units. Some units were decommissioned and mothballed in 1920-21 with the aft 4-in gun still on the main deck. Many units were decommissioned in 1920-22 because of the excess numbers of destroyers available (273 Flush-Deckers were beyond USN needs in peacetime).

By the mid-1920s active units for both classes more or less had established a common configuration. This "standard" configuration changed over time (example earlier there were two searchlights amidships, they were reduced to one in the late 1920s).

USS WARD (DD-139) was one of the units decommissioned shortly after WWI on 21 July 1921, and saw few alterations until recommissioned on 15 January 1941. She was built at Mare Island Navy Yard.

USS CHEW (DD-106), also at Pearl Harbor during the attack, was built by Union Iron Works in SF, was in "Reduced Commission" from 19 November 1919, serving in Reserve Division 10 until decommissioned on 1 June 1922. She still had her aft 4-in gun on the main deck and retained it there throughout her WWII service after being recommissioned on 14 October 1940.

Bottom-line, for accuracy, study photos on Navsource, NHHC, DestroyerHistory.org, etc., plus various books.

[chris quirk]

hi
ive got one of the new Flyhawk USS Ward kits on order and I intend finishing her as one of the Asiatic fleet vessels in '42,I know that they would have Cavite Blue vertical surfaces but does anyone know what would be correct for the decks ?
cheers
chris

[David Sandifer]

Hi, Rick. Is Ward in MS1 5-D and 5-L or MS11 5-S and 20-B on December 7th? Thank you.

[Rick E Davis]

This question has been asked before ... a few times. There is no firm answer either way.

My guess is that she was still in Ms 1 on 7 December 1941. I don't know for sure and I don't think anyone does because of a lack of photos. We only know that in the summer 1941 she was painted in Ms 1 and appears in that scheme in a photo at Pearl.

I think because there appears to have been a shortage of the "new 5-S and 5-N" paints, that she would still be in Ms 1 ... faded maybe, but still Ms 1. She likely would have been among the ships painted after the attack in the new colors over the next month or two.

[David Sandifer]

Thank you, Rick. I'll go with MS1, like Tom Freeman's painting on NavSource.

[FRAMSailor]

I am also thinking of doing an Asiatic Four Piper, possibly John D. Ford. So, just wondering if there is any readily available color the is a "close enough" match for a faded Cavite Blue?

[Rick E Davis]

It may be a good idea to post this question under the Camouflage Thread under History and References.

I believe that WEM made this color of paint or at least there was a color chip available so you could mix your own.

[Timmy C]

Flyhawk will be releasing a 1/700 HMS Campbeltown in her St. Nazaire guise: https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5602A3BE

[raven316]

Hi I ran across a large scale (I think) model of a Four Stacker in an antique store . It's 2 1/2 feet long and is in good shape. There is no information on her aside from an incorrect listing of it as a WWI Light Cruiser PT Boat. This is obviously not the best picture but it's the best I could get. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/324/1906 ... 5c5c_k.jpg

Anyway I bought it for $300 and wondered what ya'll thought?

[throck3]

Does anyone make aftermarket 1/350 scale, 4"50 deck guns as seen on USS Ward at Pearl Harbor in Dec. 1941? The white metal ones that come with the resin kits are unusable.

Rick T

[Quaestor]

Just received my Flyhawk Ward in the mail today and I have to echo all that's been said here and elsewhere about this kit and Naiad (which I also have).
Accuracy aside for the moment (although I'm not aware of any major issues with either kit), the quality of the moldings is just breathtaking. Packaging, instructions, everything is well done.
How they're producing to such a high standard a kit (Ward) that can then be had, shipped, for US$20 is rather amazing. Long may they continue.
If you're at all interested in 1/700th WWII subjects, you need this kit.

[Quaestor]

I am also thinking of doing an Asiatic Four Piper, possibly John D. Ford. So, just wondering if there is any readily available color the is a "close enough" match for a faded Cavite Blue?

See here: https://www.whiteensignmodels.com/page/ ... ocFCVKYGVd
Scroll to the bottom for both Cavite blue and Chicago blue formulae; using Colourcoats.