Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[Rick E Davis]

In looking for a photo of a 20-mm mount with the "ring" ... I realized that the Claxton (DD-571) that I posted above shows them installed in this 1944 photo. It appears from the photos I looked through and that show the 20-mm mounts, this feature didn't appear on ships until about 1944. The height of these rings look too high for stepping on ... so I'm unsure if it was for standing on ... it may have been adjustable?

[bocME262]

Rick,

Well I kind of figured you were going to say that. I've only mounted three of the rings so I guess that's better than 10, huh?

Thanks as always!

Greg

[Gordon Bjorklund]

Want to see a Fletcher built in less than 30 minutes. Here is a link to a video of a Todd shipyard Fletcher being built back in 1943.
http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/vi ... ID=4030729

Enjoy.

[Rick E Davis]

That video is great. I have not been able to ID the ship ...yet.

[Mike Glasgow]

Paging Rick:

On the midship deckhouse bulwark/main deck (both port and starboard) just in line with the aft torpedo tubes there is a curved housing. Most ships had two vertical tube cylinders right above this housing.
It looks like they are about 6-7 feet long with one aft end closed and the forward end open. What are these and what should I scratchbuild inside the housing. Hope this makes sense, please excuse my novice naval terminology. TIA

Mike Glasgow

[Rick E]

Mike,

I work in 1/700 and these kinds of details don't matter. I'm learning a lot checking out these little details. I'm not sure exactly what photos you have that you see this area. It seems that there is some variation in the area below the Torepedo Tubes. Look at the close-up image of the Howorth that is posted on page 14 of this string. I'll tell you right how I don't know what the quarter cylinder at the deck/bulkhead junction is. What items are you interested in? I'll check the reference books I have and plans to see if there is some definition of what is what. The starboard side in this area is pretty hard to get clear photos because of the catwalk running along the deck edge in that area.

[Stephen S]

Just watched the mini movie of the building of the Fletcher Class Destroyer made in 1943 at the Todd Ship building yard in Seattle. Very nice step back in time.

I think She may have been the USS Calhoun DD 801 . . . painted in Measure 32 design 6D.

Checking aginst the Ship camouflage website only a few in that design. There's only her, DD 563 Ross & DD 564 Rowe in that paint scheme Sqaure bridge built in '43 at the Seattle/Tacoma Ship building yards (according to Navsource) and i believe I saw the number "8" as the first number on her bow .

[Rick E Davis]

Stephen,

I came to the conclusion that the ship (actually there could be several ships in this movie) that is shown at the end is one of the 800 series of ships. I can make out the "8" as well and what looks to be a "0". The names and hull numbers were censored out in this movie. Also, if this ship is of one of the "800" series of Fletchers, the movie was taken in 1944 not 1943 (although some of it could have been). I had started to try to ID the ship to her Ms pattern and I'm not much of an expert in that area. Lee Johnson's book on "Fletcher class Dazzle camo" has the Colhoun (DD-801) and MAYBE Rooks (DD-804) listed in this pattern. Plus he shows some photos of incomplete Fletchers taken at PSNY (assumed) without the hull numbers applied that don't match the known patterns for the above two ships. So, this ship in the photo may have been repainted to a different scheme.

[Mike Glasgow]

Rick:

Actually the item I'm wondering about sits on the ships main deck and joins the midship deckhouse. In that photo on page 14 the two vertical cylinders that sit on top of this item is shown wrapped by, looks like rope or something. On many photos they appear on both sides, I think they might be fan shrouds with a large radiused corner. On both the port and starboard side they sit just forward of the support braces that extend out from the deckhouse. Here's a link from Fine Art Models

It's right below the black cable reel. On some photos you can see something inside this housing from the forward end.

[Rick E Davis]

Mike,

I dug into the BIW Engineering Drawings DVD and the quarter circular cylinder structures are labeled in the drawings as "Air Intakes" and those "fuzzy" cylinder things are labeled as fenders!!! The deckhouse area under the aft Torpedo Tube bank was taken up for the most part by the trunking leading up to the second stack. The Cable Reel is for the "Shore Comm. Cable". The hatch door is to a 20-mm ammo locker (I didn't know that before).

Attached are; 1) a plan drawing of the area, 2) views of the air intake castings ... I'm not sure if these are open on the end ... although there looks to be a grating on one end(?), 3) a view of the Ammen (DD-527) showing this area that seems to roughly match the drawing, 4) a view of the Mertz (DD-691) a late built Fletcher showing a different layout for this area. It appears that a second 20-mm ammo locker was built over the air intake area.

As best I can tell Ammen and The Sullivans were both built by Bethlehem - SF to the same design in this area.
Mertz shows that this area was different on some ships.

[Mike Glasgow]

Rick, I have spent many hours searching for detailed pictures and drawings but you really find the best. Thanks, I have noticed a few of the museum ships to have the forward end plated over but I did see one photo a while back where it did look like something was inside the case (which started this whole thing). Sometimes I wonder if the museum ships were "modified" not only by date of service but modified to keep people/weather out of certain parts of the ship. That's why those dated photos/drawings you have helped me with over the months are priceless.

Mike Glasgow

[bocME262]

Rick, I have spent many hours searching for detailed pictures and drawings but you really find the best. Thanks, I have noticed a few of the museum ships to have the forward end plated over but I did see one photo a while back where it did look like something was inside the case (which started this whole thing). Sometimes I wonder if the museum ships were "modified" not only by date of service but modified to keep people/weather out of certain parts of the ship. That's why those dated photos/drawings you have helped me with over the months are priceless.

Mike Glasgow

Mike,

You're absolutley right. We would be alot more in the dark around here if it were not for Rick.

Rick, I think I echo the thoughts of everyone else in this thread when I say thanks for all the help! We really appreciate it!

[les]

Interesting shot of the 20's on that one destroyer. The sheilds appear to be folded. Didn't know they would do that.

[Rick E Davis]

Les,

The shields on the 20-mm guns weren't foldable. The Mertz in this December 1945 view is in the process of being Mothballed and the shields have been removed from the brackets on the mounts. I'm not sure if they covered and sealed the two shield halves next to the mounts as shown here leaning against the mount, or stored them inside the ship somewhere.

By the way, the view of the Ammen shows the way I have seen the base ring for "standing" on to depress the 20-mm guns and I couldn't find for the earlier discussion. Sorry, they did mount these to the deck ... when they were used.

[Sauragnmon]

OK, Random question. I've just recently gotten it in my desire to build the USS Black, purely for the sake of that pennant number. I'm wondering which kits are out there in 1/700 scale for the Fletcher class, and which fitouts I can find and the like. Thus, I would like to behold the vastness of the already established knowledge of the Fighting Fletchers here.

Thanks!

[Rick E Davis]

Sauragnmon,

I don't know what time period you are interested in modeling Black. Black (DD-666) was a Federal SB built Fletcher. Her WWII configuration is seen in this photo ... http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletche ... ck_01.html ... at Destroyer History website (the photo is dated as 1945, but I think it is 1944). Navsource.org has a few WWII photos of the Black and several more of her post-war. Black was commissioned on 21 May 1943 in the then standard three twin 40-mm mounts and ten 20-mm guns. In September 1943, Black was upgraded to the five twin 40-mm mounts with seven 20-mm guns. She remained in that configuration for the rest of the war. As far as I can tell she remained in Ms-21 for the entire war.

Post-war when she was first recommissioned for the Korean War she was in the basic WWII configuration ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0566620.jpg ...

In early 1952 she was upgraded to the "five-gun" configuration (five 5-in, two quad 40-mm and one twin 40-mm mounts, one TT bank) ... no photos on navsource of her in this configuration.

In 1954 the Black was then modified to the "four-gun" configuration (four 5-in., three twin 3-in mounts, one TT bank) ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0566621.jpg ...

The two kits available in plastic for this "Square Bridge" ship that can be used to build the WWII version are the Tamiya Cushing kit and the older SW-01 Callaghan kit. I would recommend the Tamiya kit as being the better of the two. The Trumpeter 1/700 The Sullivans kit will only build the late war configuration of 14-40mm guns. Depending on how accurate you wish to build the model, there are things that could be (should be?) upgraded to the kit (like replace the 5-in. gun mounts with better and truer scale ones).

There are no plastic kits of the Fletchers in post-war configurations. To make one of these, you will need to do a lot of scratch building and hunting for parts to fit-out the ship for the time frame you want. If you are interested in the post-war five-gun configuration, then the Trumpeter kit may be a good option for you. Since that kit has the quad 40-mm configuration layout.

If you go through all the pages in this string ... you will find comments about these kits and the 1/350 kits that have some different options available for the modeler.

[PeteM]

If you can get a hold of the Warship Perspective: Fletcher, Gearing, Sumner book by Jeff Herne there are top and starboard side line drawings of the Black in 1944 fit.

[Rick E Davis]

Drawings of Black are also in Alan Raven's book ..." Fletcher-Class Destroyers" in the Warship Design Histories series. The drawings in "Warship Perspective: Fletcher, Gearing, Sumner" maybe a reprint of these. The USNI 1986 copy of "Fletcher-Class Destroyers" is out-of-print, but may be available somewhere on-line.

[Francisco P. de Nanclares]

Hi all.

I am closing the starting moment for the Spanish Navy Lepanto, former USS Capps. I am building her in her post- modernisation guise: tripod mast, newer antennae, and the like. Thanks to the ready help of Jimmy Conway and others, I am fairly sure of what is where nearly all around the ship, except for a "black hole" I expect you may help me to fill. It is the area between the aft funnel and n� 3 turret. The quintuple torpedo launcher was gone with the refit, as well as the forward one, but I seem unable to find a clear picture of the area and whatever piece of equipment, if any, was placed instead.

So I would be grateful indeed if any of you can solve this issue for me.

Thanks very much in advance.
Pachi.

[Rick E Davis]

Francisco,

I'm not going to be able to answer this question with any certainty. The Lepanto (ex-Capps) was transferred in the basic configuration she had post her Anti-Kamikaze mod (two quad and three twin 40-mm mounts ... http://www.destroyerhistory.org/fletche ... ps_01.html ...) from WWII except that the two twin 40-mm mounts in front of the bridge were replaced with hedgehogs and the aft torpedo tubes bank removed giving her none. Also, references say she had three twin 40-mm mounts and the limited photos seem to show that she had the quads replaced with twins ... why? But, I guess you already know this. She apparently got the tripod and updated radars in the 1960's and had little else done after that. The few photos I have found don't show exactly what was installed where the aft TT bank was located. This navsource photo has the best, if not blurry, view of the amidships area ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0555006.jpg ... (you will need to copy and paste this link into your browser since navsource does not allow hot-linking). I can not tell what is installed there, but it does not appear to be any kind of weapons system. It could be a life raft storage or something of the sort???

I'll keep an eye out, but the reference books I have ... Jane's and Combat Fleets ... have not been much help with clear photos of that area. The 1986/87 issue of Combat Fleets has a photo of Lepanto dated in 1984 (on page 419) showing what looks like life raft canisters arranged in that area amidships. Also, the general appearance for this area is different in profile from early shots.

Rick