Calling all Royal Navy A-I class fans

[Secondo]

Thank you very much for your answers, now things are finally getting clear
I think I will begin with a small scale model to have a better approach to the subject; I would have made a complete mess without your help

[Tim Stoneman]

Another ITHURIEL photo is at http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Shi ... 05-02.html

[Secondo]

Another ITHURIEL photo is at http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Shi ... 05-02.html

Thanks, that lateral wiew is much welcome as now I can precisely figure out the camouflage scheme (thinking that I started from being convinced that there were only two tones... )

[Laurence Batchelor]

Dear Secondo,

Depending upon how much information and accuracy you desire, there is a general arrangement 'as fitted' plan of Intrepid over 2 pages in March's book British Destroyers 1892-1953 which could be useful for you. This book is expensive to obtain, so perhaps your local library in Italy can order a copy for you through inter-library loan.

Regards
LB

[Secondo]

Dear Secondo,

Depending upon how much information and accuracy you desire, there is a general arrangement 'as fitted' plan of Intrepid over 2 pages in March's book British Destroyers 1892-1953 which could be useful for you. This book is expensive to obtain, so perhaps your local library in Italy can order a copy for you through inter-library loan.

Regards
LB

Yes, I got to know, by the means of another forum, a naval historian which very kindly gave me a pdf with that (really excellent, let me say) plan. Withouth that I would have never considered this subject.
Anyway, thank you for the info

[Christian Bruer]

Hello,

a short while ago I have started building WEMs 1/350 HMS Glowworm. After cleaning the main parts and looking for some references I have taken a closer look to this interesting thread about the A- I class destroyers.

Laurence, many thanks for the information about the color scheme with dark grey hull and light upperworks and the aft funnel band on HMS Glowworm in March � April 1940. I will build her in that color scheme at the time of her loss in April 1940.

The WEM kit is nice but lacks some detail, especially the torpedo tubes are only basic. I found some information on HMCS Heida�s web page: http://hmcshaida.ca/torptube.html
According to Shipcraft No. 11 �British Destroyers A-I and Tribal Class� the G-class Destroyers were also fitted with 21 inch Mk. IX mountings as Heida was.

Due to the photo of Heidas quadruple mounting I add some 50 plastic and brass parts on Glowworms quintuple mounting.

Also I did some extra work on the 0.5 inch Vickers MG.

[mike mccabe]

Laurence, many thanks for the information about the color scheme with dark grey hull and light upperworks and the aft funnel band on HMS Glowworm in March � April 1940. I will build her in that color scheme at the time of her loss in April 1940.

Christian
Are you convinced about that colour scheme? I'm not. A grainy photo at a distance in heavy seas with plenty of smoke around and a ship that had been at sea for some time, and no other documented evidence, I think a pinch of salt is needed

Mike

[Christian Bruer]

Christian
Are you convinced about that colour scheme? I'm not. A grainy photo at a distance in heavy seas with plenty of smoke around and a ship that had been at sea for some time, and no other documented evidence, I think a pinch of salt is needed

Mike

Hi Mike,

No I�m not absolutely convinced about that scheme. As you mentioned, there is no other photo than this wartime photo. The darker hull can also be a shadow effect or some dirt from salt water or a combination of both. Well, there are only pre war photos showing HMS Glowworm in light grey and no wartime photo that evidenced the one or other color scheme.

Do you know if there is any other Destroyer at that early war time period painted dark and light grey? If yes it could be possible that Glowworm wore this scheme too, if not it is improbable that just and only Glowworm wore that scheme.
Whatever, a dark grey hull and light upperworks are more attractive than light grey over all � my point of view.

According to this discussion some of my aeroplane building modeling friends are wondering about us ship modelers, because they can�t believe that we are talking also about paints and color schemes like they did

[dick]

Mike,

If you are "not convinced" that Glowworm was in dark hull/light upperworks when sunk, please suggest what scheme you think she was in along with your supporting evidence.

[dick]

Christian,

You asked:

" Do you know if there is any other Destroyer at that early war time period painted dark and light grey? If yes it could be possible that Glowworm wore this scheme too, if not it is improbable that just and only Glowworm wore that scheme. "

Here is a picture of Fury during the Norwegian Campaign (dated 20th April 1940 but dates on photos at the IWM are often when received by the Admiralty and the pictures themselves were actually taken a bit earlier).

[Christian Bruer]

Hi Dick,

thank you very much for the information and for sharing the photo. Ther is not a wide difference in the grey shades on HMS Fury, but it seems to me it is 507C/507B?!
If there is no photo available showing Glowworm in the on or other color scheme at around 1939/1940, I believe it is a little bit guess work and own preference. I like that 507C/507B scheme and if there is no more information I will use it on my model!

[Laurence Batchelor]

Lovely work Christian.

In regards to Glowworm's paint scheme at the time of her loss: I have a whole series of photos taken of Glowworm's last action through Hipper's range-finder and all show Dark hull light upperworks, there is not just the one photo depicted on a previous page. Unfortunately the external hard drive which contains my entire photo database is currently with a data recovery company in London as it failed after only 7-months old. It's a shame the 5-year warranty doesn't cover ones data! Thus I cannot post them at present. If no one else has them and is willing to post them, then when I get the photos back I will post them here.

Furthermore the Glowworm website has on it a photo supposedly of her in May 1939 at Alexandria in a dark hull scheme (upperworks not visible) which I pasted onto page 1 of this thread and there is another of her in dry dock with bow damage and again the hull is dark grey. These two photos don't preclude her being repainted later on, but they at least give us a reference point as to how she was painted shortly before war began.

I have found NO evidence to suggest she was painted in the scheme depicted in the artwork in the Shipcraft AtoI and Tribals book. If the author of the book and the chap who did the artwork can come forward and suggest what evidence they based their artwork on (perhaps a photograph no one else has seen?) I'll happily go along with it. I've spoken to numerous people also to ask their opinion's on Glowworm's camouflage as sunk. They all concurred stating all AVAILABLE evidence points to dark hull light upperworks with her funnel band still in place.

Until clear evidence to the contrary emerges, surely it makes sense to stick with our best interpretation on the evidence available?
I'm happy as always to be proved wrong by anyone willing to back up their opinions with some sort of clear evidence.
Cheers
LB

[Christian Bruer]

Hi Laurence,

thank you for your compliment about my work!

I know the photos through Hippers rangefinder but only in a poor quality. Researching for more information I found this, maybe it is interesting too:
http://www.naval-history.net/WW2Ships-Glowworm.htm

[Laurence Batchelor]

Dear Christian,

Those are different shots to the ones I have.
In the series I mentioned there is one in particular where the majority of Glowworm's stb. hull can be made out very much broadside on to the camera.

Dear Dick,

According to the Brown, D. (ed.) (2004) Naval Operations of the Campaign in Norway April-June 1940 [which is in fact a revamped and tweaked Admiralty Naval Staff History BR1736(46) Battle Summary No.17 freely available at the PRO] the same Fury illustration is given in there as Figure 5 and the date suggested is either the 20th or 21st April 1940 (IWM states 20th only).

[dick]

Dear Christian,

Fascinating pictures - thanks for posting the link.

Yes, my interpretation is a light and a medium grey (507C/507B) on Glowworm and Fury.

Best wishes.

[mike mccabe]

Hi Dick,

thank you very much for the information and for sharing the photo. Ther is not a wide difference in the grey shades on HMS Fury, but it seems to me it is 507C/507B?!
If there is no photo available showing Glowworm in the on or other color scheme at around 1939/1940, I believe it is a little bit guess work and own preference. I like that 507C/507B scheme and if there is no more information I will use it on my model!

Christian,
I say go with your own preference, use the evidence of your own eyes and opinion, build the best model you can.

Mike

[Quincy]

Are both smokestacks on the E Class similar to the H class of ships?



Bob Pink.

[Christian Bruer]

Are both smokestacks on the E Class similar to the H class of ships?

Hi Bob,

I don't know but maybe you found an answer for your own comparing some photos of E and H class destroyers:
http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/index12.htm

Here you found photos of Echo, Electra, Escapade, Exmouth and Express as well as Hardy, Hero, Hesperus, Highlander and Hunter.

MAybe that helps!

[Quincy]

Hi Christian:


The E Class funnels are a little to tall and differ at the base.


Sorry for the late reponse.


Bob Pink.

[Couch Kings]

I'm going to tackle Electra using the Tamiya 1/700 E Class. What do many of you do with the portholes? Drill them out? Paint them?