What-If LCS Flight II: Littoral Combat Ship Improvement

[Russ2146]

Actually, I pulled that off Strategy Page's announcement of the Nov. 5 announcement of the $29 Million. I suspect that they just looked up what was originally intended for the two types of packages. Which still leaves the question of what is in the packages that were ordered?

[carr]

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[navydavesof]

Check this out, guys. Even though the ships apparently suck LCS-2 makes for a very interesting model. Look at the quality of this build. It's great.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/inde ... 5835&st=40
This one was done really well, and it makes me want to build one of these guys.

[Russ2146]

Navy Seeks To Build More Littoral Combat Ships Sooner

The Navy remains committed to the LCS program and the requirement for 55 of these ships to provide combatant commanders with the capability to defeat anti-access threats in the littorals, including fast surface craft, quiet submarines and various types of mines.
by Staff Writers
Washington DC (SPX) Nov 11, 2010
Effective competition between industry bidders to build the littoral combat ship (LCS) led the Navy Nov. 4 to discuss with key Defense Committee members and their staff, as well as industry, the possibility of gaining congressional authorization to award each bidder a 10-ship block buy.
Consideration of this option is separate from the ongoing LCS down select process, and if congressional approval for a dual block buy is not received, the Navy will proceed to down select in accordance with the terms of the current solicitation.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Navy_Se ... r_999.html

[carr]

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[navydavesof]

David,

Did anything ever come of this thread? Were you planning to build something from this discussion?

Yes, sir. I pull out my Cyber-Hobby LCS-2 about once a week and look at its neato parts and pieces...and then I have to control myself and put it away . I think about the mast arrangement twice or three times a week. Once I am done with John Paul Jones, CGN-42, and DDH, LCS Flight II will come out and play on my dining room table

Do you have any more suggestions about it?

[carr]

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[navydavesof]

Are you going to try to incorporate the Griffon missile as the Navy seems to want to do?

Well, do we know for sure what it's supposed to look like? I was thinking about that neat arm launcher with four missiles hanging under each arm.

[carr]

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[navydavesof]

If I had to model this right now, I'd look at adding a Griffon-ized RAM launcher to the bow where the NLOS was intended to go. That would be pure speculation, of course.

Hmmm. The Navy does have a hard on for VLS so they would probably find a way to eventually get them inside VLS tubes. However, if the Navy all of a sudden got a bur up its butt to actually get something done I could see a self contained unit with the Phalanx CIWS mount with the legs holding a box launcher like SeaRAM with a laser designator attached to the mount.

The box launcher would be shorter than SeaRAM, and it could extend lower than the 11 round SeaRAM. Since the mount would not have to rotate back real far/super elevate (only right and left movement instead of left and right and up and down) like SeaRAM to counter air threats it would not need as much clearance between the bottom of the launcher box and the base. This would allow for a larger Griffin magazine. I would only suggest that arrangement (the dome on top) in order to give it all the same benefits of CIWS Block 1B and make it an all-in-one mount that could be installed without a bunch of other stuff like a laser designator having to be mounted on the mast.

Otherwise the normal RAM launcher with Griffin missiles in it sounds pretty good. It would still need a designator somewhere.

[navydavesof]

Also, one must keep in mind that the Flight II bad boy is going to have a pair of 76mm super rapid-fire guns in addition to the 57mm (as was described earlier in the thread) in order to address small boat threats.

Even though NLOS was supposed to be a "swarm buster" I think we understand that the only hope to really "bust" a swarm will be dependent on several LCS Flight II ships or other platforms helping out. This would likely include a Cyclone Flight II-class PC as well (hint hint, another joint project carr and I have worked on).

[carr]

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[carr]

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[navydavesof]

..I suspect that the Griffon is not capable of being initially guided from a vertical launch path to an approximate target bearing where it can then pick up the laser designation. If that's the case, it may require a direct launch bearing towards the target which would dictate a trainable launcher (RAM type or arm launcher). Remember, the trick in vertical launching is not the launch itself; it's the transition from an unguided vertical trajectory to an approximate target bearing.

While this is true, it's also true about RAM, but they're doing their best to jam those in VLS, too. Making the missiles tip over immediately after launch is the trick, and they've achieved it with ESSM and SM-2 BlockIVUM. RAM is the next step and other missiles after that.



They are continually expanding the capabilities of these weapons and the ability to launch them. For some reason taking up Mk41 VLS cells sounds like a good idea to some people. I don't advocate this, but I guess it makes sense for the Arleigh Burkes, because they can't easily support RAM launchers as they are.

[navydavesof]

Let's remember that there are two types of swarm: one is comprised of gun/RPG armed boats and the other is missile armed (Exocet type of anti-ship missile)...The missile armed boats that only have to close to 20 miles or so are far more dangerous since they can stay out of range of guns or Griffon missiles. This kind of swarm can only be countered by Harpoons (maybe Standard missiles?)...

SMs are line-of-sight in the ASM role, so no go at 20 miles. Harpoons are a bit too scarce to use against these small craft, especially in these numbers I guess you could just throw a bunch at the swarm and have them lock on to whichever small craft they wanted. There would be plenty of contacts.

If you want a challenge, figure out how to deal with the hundreds of Iranian boats each armed with 2-4 ASM's.

I don't think there's any defeat of this threat, but it can likely be survived by counter measure and engagement. Counter measure would cut down the numbers of incoming targets by a lot. Critical for that would be NULKA and Chaff, then RAM and CIWS could go for what is not distracted and what has actaully acquired the ships. Then a strike against boats' home and hopefully their safe-havens. Afterward those boats would be homeless and could be re-engaged sooner or later.

The swarm thing sucks and as we have observed is really, really hard if not impossible to defeat.

[carr]

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[carr]

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[navydavesof]

Even Aegis would only be marginally effective due to the very short range initial engagement point.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold your horses, there, Mr. Carr. That's enough blaspheming for one night. The Navy's decree is that Aegis can do everything including pee its own name in the snow, and DDGs can do everything even better-er.

Be careful, because the Navy �culture police� might visit you in the middle of the night and persuade you to get on board.

[navydavesof]

Bob posted something interesting about the variable depth sonar in the LCS-1 thread.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=60524&start=20

This is interesting, so maybe this will have to be incorporated into the LCS-2 Flight II build. Further consideration will have to be made! Thanks for the picture and information, Bob!

[carr]

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