Calling all Soviet Kirov-class (Орлан) Project 1144 & Slava-class (Атлант) Project 1164 fans

[carr]

..

[NorthSea]

Yes, good discussion Bob, and very enlightening, I learn a lot by exchanging views.

If you have another close look at the picture looking into the open hangar, you will see the cables holding down the aircraft. If you now mentally position the aircraft over the elevator platform and look closely, you will see some raised eye-bolts that must be tie-downs for the position on the platform.

You've probably also noticed the odd angled section of recovery track just at the rear edge of the elevator. I reckon that when the platform is raised this can be oriented fore-aft thus extending the length of the recovery track onto the platform.

There do seem to be a lot of things to trip over if you go wandering around the flight deck on a dark night.

[carr]

..

[Ticonderoga]

I am glad we have existence of sleds confirmed now and a rough idea what they look like. tie downs I am still not sure about. One other missing flight deck item so far is the existence of a ground power unit. I have not seen one ranged in deck in any helo photo therefore I assume they used an umbilical and a deck connection?

Andrew

[NorthSea]

That picture of the sleds was well spotted Bob. Now here's a Kamov with a deck power connection, or is it fuel?

Also note that the forward part of the hexagon railing has been removed.

[carr]

..

[Admhawk]

An observation. I've been following the discussions with interest and I don't have any facts to add, but here's a thought, why assume the need for tie downs? Most photos show the landing pad empty. If common practice is to get the helos secured in the hangar asap, then you don't need to tie them down on the deck often enough to install tie downs. Photos in Dave Wooley's Kiev build show them pretty clearly in the deck and they obviously don't have the same style, if any, on the Kirovs.

Just my 2 bits worth.

[Cliffy B]

Sorry if this a dumb question but is that cargo net under the helo? If so, what is its purpose?

[Ticonderoga]

An observation. I've been following the discussions with interest and I don't have any facts to add, but here's a thought, why assume the need for tie downs? Most photos show the landing pad empty. If common practice is to get the helos secured in the hangar asap, then you don't need to tie them down on the deck often enough to install tie downs. Photos in Dave Wooley's Kiev build show them pretty clearly in the deck and they obviously don't have the same style, if any, on the Kirovs.

Just my 2 bits worth.

Interesting observation Darren, perhaps we areall trying to see something we want to see...... As per the Kiev, the tied downs on the Slava are also obvious.

Andrew

[Ticonderoga]

Sorry if this a dumb question but is that cargo net under the helo? If so, what is its purpose?

The cargo net is used to provide addedd "friction" on the deck to assist in keeping the helo stationary on the deck during the landing and take off phases offlight ops.


Andrew

[carr]

..

[NorthSea]

Now here's a Kamov with a deck power connection, or is it fuel?

Nice! We're making progress!

By the way, do you know which ship it is in the photo? I can tell it's not Kirov but I can't tell which of the others it is. I would assume Velikiy but I'm just guessing because the photo looks new and in color.

I can't be certain, but I think it's Velikiy. Someone has circled the towing hook in the recessed area of deck, and we have just seen that in other photos. Also note the black bollards with white tops.

[NorthSea]

An observation. I've been following the discussions with interest and I don't have any facts to add, but here's a thought, why assume the need for tie downs? Most photos show the landing pad empty. If common practice is to get the helos secured in the hangar asap, then you don't need to tie them down on the deck often enough to install tie downs.

Good observation. I have several pictures showing two helos on deck simultaneously, and have been assuming that at least one has to be tied down.

You would also want to operate two helos simultaneously if your ASW practice is to have one searching and listening, and the second carrying ASW weapons. That's not to say you couldn't do that by managing your flight deck operations nicely. I'm now in the realm of things I know nothing about, so maybe I should shut up.

[Neptune]

Sorry to jump in so late.

They do have tie downs. Normally they use 6 of them for the Kamov, but they have more of them, likely 8 or 10. They are however difficult to see. They're elliptical plates, hardly sticking out of the deck, but inside that ellips they have a pit with a small stanchion in the middle, to fix the tie down tension bar. It's the ones Bob has marked with the "Tie Downs?" mark. I'll show a better close-up from an Udaloy, where they have the same helo handling equipment as on the Kirovs (except for the tracks, which have a different covering over them on the Udaloy).
The "cargo net" is often fixed over the railings as well, that is what the fittings outside of the white railings, which Bob has marked are for. The wheels of the helo go through the net so that it's difficult for the helo start slipping.

[NorthSea]

Good picture Neptune!

Now, in the foreground just on the white circle marking, is that dome-shaped thing a landing light? There's one in the background as well. One of Bob's earlier pictures showed six lights around the circle, and I had intended to ask about them after we had debated the tie-downs. So does anyone have any more landing light info? Especially, what colour are the lights?

[Neptune]

Yes that's a landing light. They're all around the white circles, didn't count the total of them though. This is also an Udaloy, which means that the structure of certain things is probably the same, yet numbers and positions are likely to be different.

[NorthSea]

It's been a fascinaating discussion on helicopters and flight decks, thanks to everyone. Now just in case you think we're finished, here are some more pictures. I would properly credit the photographer, but as they came from a Russian site that I couldn't read, I guess I just have to say thank you whoever you are.

Right, to get this thing in the air, we start by straightening out the angled section of track.

Helo on elevator

Next we attach the sled and the nosewheel dolly, and push. Note the odd fixings on the elevator platform.

Push it out

Position it on the octagon, note the cargo net fixings on either side of the tracks.

Onto the octagon

Rotors set up, clean the windows of the cockpit. What's that box with knobs and dials on deck just in front of the helo?

Clean the windows

Crew on board. Note the deck power connection.

Ready to go

If you see anything else, please point it out.

[carr]

..

[Ticonderoga]

Thanks Bob,

I have seen an instance when the same Soviet ship carried different numbers port and stbd.

Andrew

[HvyCgn9]

I was perusing the Maritime library section of our State Library here in Adelaide and found this interesting pic of the dipping sonar being deployed on Frunze in a book on Soviet warships.
Sometimes it pays 2 do some research the oldskool way!! heaps of great books on many subjects.

Cheers Bruce