Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[Jeffcsr]

Any kits on the market that depict the Fletcher after conversion to a DDE?

http://www.answers.com/topic/uss-fletcher

[KenG]

According to Snyder & Short, in 1943 Fletcher was in MS21 i.e. all vertical surfaces painted Navy Blue 5-N. Prior to this it was painted MS12.
I am currently building the Tamiya Fletcher for a diaorama in Purvis Bay as per this photograph. Can anyone confirm if there was a 20mm on top of the pilot-house? It looks like there is, but I can't be certain.
Thanks guys.

[Rick E Davis]

Ken,
I assume you mean the March 1943 photo of the Fletcher at Purvis Bay that is available at several websites and books. Yes the Fletcher has a 20mm added to the top of the pilot house ... pretty common on the early round bridge Fletcher's. As best I can tell ... this means that she had a total of 7 20mm guns plus the two twin 40mm mtgs at that time.

[Jeffcsr]

Hi Guys,
Jeff,
Which scale?
Tony

Being the size of the model I'd prefer 1/350 but I do 1/700 also.

[thathaway3]

I've been meaning to reply for several days but have been busy and wasn't able to verify until last night.

Somebody does make twin 20mms, specifically there are 10 included in the White Ensign Model 1/350 WWII USN Light AA Weapons (Reference #PE 3555) which includes 60 single 20mm as well as 18 shields for the 40mm.

I had the choice of several versions of the single 20mm when I did my 1/350 Missouri, and the WEM were by far the best. I mounted the PE gun and shield on the plastic base from the Tamiya kit, and scratched an ammo drum from sprue rod, and the results were very satisfactory. I haven't used the twins as yet, but I'm anticitpating using them on a late war Fletcher as well.

Tom

[kurt]

I received a set of Corsair Armada 5/38 mounts for my Fletcher build and these are really beautiful!! I have some brass barrels from Marinemodels on the way, and I'll be good to go!

Kurt

[MartinJQuinn]

I've started working on the Trumpeter Sullivans (my latest "lunchtime project"). I'm going to build her as the USS Gatling (DD-671), for my Uncle, who served on her after her 1945 refit at Mare Island. This picture from Navsource show the Gatling in drydock at Mare Island, towards the end of her yard period. She is wearing Ms22 (or the new Ms12). Notice the gun tub and the depth-charge racks on the stern are painted 5N. There is another photo of Gatling from the Tin Can Sailors site that shows the same thing.

Isn't that unusual for Ms22? I don't think I've ever seen that before. I'm going to paint the Gatling per the photo, I was just curious if this was a change in the way the measure was applied, or perhaps Mare Island's interpretation of the guidelines. Interestingly, the bow hull numbers also seem to be applied in a "non-standard" manner in this picture.

My Uncle was assigned to the Gatling at Pearl Harbor in the summer of 1945. Here is the DANFS account of her war service after that point:

After repairs and refresher training, Gatling escorted New Jersey and Biloxi to Eniwetok, bombarding Wake Island en route. Continuing to escort New Jersey, she arrived at Guam 9 August. There the news came that Japan had accepted the provisions of the Potsdam Declaration and agreed to surrender. The mighty sea war was won. Gatling now headed for Japan escorting transports bearing the 4th Marine Division as the 3d Fleet rendezvoused off Japan. On 3 September 1945, Gatling steamed into Tokyo Bay as a unit of the Allied Naval Occupation Forces of Japan.

My Uncle says the crew was allowed up on the deck (he was in one of the firerooms) to watch the NJ shell Wake.

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Kurt et all,
Pac Ft was out of the L'Arsenal 5" single mounts, so I did like Kurt and got the Corsair Armada mounts. They are quite nice but I will be using the leftover L'Arsenal resin barrels, (from the twin mounts), as they are much nicer. I don't think I'll be going with brass barrels, but I usually do. Marinemodels...hmmmmm.
Martin,
Good skill to you with US Gatling!
It's nice to see another modeler's progress pics.
Devin,
How you doin'?
Tony

[johndon]

I used the Corsair Armada turrets, complete with the PE set and L'Arsenal barrels (about 15 parts per turret IIRC) on my Fletcher, they do a good job, so far as I can see, of representing the real thing. Couple of pics below:




Must try to get it finished one day

John

[Rick E Davis]

Something new that I have come across on the NHC website.

Fletcher class destroyers started getting twin 20mm guns replacing the single 20mm guns several months before the Anti-Kamikaze upgrade (14-40mm and 6 twin 20mm) was ordered in April 1945. There are several Fletcher's that had their 7 single 20mm guns replaced with 6 twin 20mm in the same manner that was done to the Anti-Kamikaze modified ships. An example is the USS Terry in this June 1945 photo at MINY (interesting in that other Fletcher's were getting the 14-40mm mod at this same time, yet the Terry kept her 5 twin 40mm guns) ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0551318.jpg ... Another example is the USS Halford also at MINY in May 1945 ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0548015.jpg ...
I don't have anywhere near an accurate count of just how many Fletcher's got this up-gun to twin 20mm mounts before the Anti-Kamikaze program kicked in. The earliest mod I have documented was the USS Harrison in early Feb 1945. However, now I have what looks to be one of those oddballs that you can run into. In looking at the photos that the NHC recently added to their website included two of the USS Beale in Jan 1945 at HPNY. One of these I have seen before, the other a stern shot, I don't remember ... http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... i03758.jpg ... What is interesting is that it looks like at least one of the three 20mm gun mounts is a twin. My eyesight isn't the greatest anymore and I'm not computer smart enough to know now to enlarge this (although I'm going to try) photo, but if all three (and who knows about the waist four 20 mm mounts?) of these are twins ... that would be a new one. All the other photos I have seen of Fletcher's with twin 20mm guns, they replaced the three singles with two twins and made the tub smaller (at the same time they increased the Depth Charge load). Does anyone know just when they first started to install the twin 20mm guns on Fletcher's or any other ships for that matter? If they replaced all 7 single 20mm guns with twins .. that would have been 14 of them ... the most ever installed on a Fletcher.

[kurt]

Can anyone tell me if the "line guides" which lay diagonally in the antislip stipping on the stern deck, approximately even with the start of the prop guards, are an open bit or closed chock type of fitting? I can't tell no matter how much I enlarge the photos I have. Thanks.

Kurt

[bwross11]

Kurt the line guides are sort of an half open chock for running lines across the deck around various other deck fittings that wouldn't be kind to hawser. I think that I have a picture somewhere in the files that shows one, I'll dig around and see if I can find it.

Bruce

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Cadman,
The Fletcher anchor is 4000 lbs.
Found it in the Floating Drydock planbook last night. Belated, but...........
Awesome reference material!

[Rick E Davis]

Awhile back in this thread there was discusion about which Fletcher class units had twin rudders. Well, while going through websites for Fletcher class units, I found a USS Porter (DD-800) website page at the destryersonline.com site with enlightning photos. According to some sources the Porter was one of the few to be built with the same twin rudders as the following Summer and Gearing classes (some sources said as many as six, DD-799-804). Anyway, there is a somewhat rare drydock shot (for this group of units anyway) of the stern area of the USS Porter .... http://www.destroyersonline.com/images/dd800030.jpg ... and it is obvious that she DID NOT have twin rudders. I believe this is the enlarged rudder installed after this class was recommisioned for the KW. Since, some sources listed as few as four units (DD-801-804) with twin rudders ... that information may be valid after all. Or maybe this will turn out to be a myth?

[ModelMonkey]

A former crewman of DD804 sent photos of the ship in drydock clearly showing her single rudder.

I am increasingly inclined to believe the twin rudder reports for some Fletchers as myth.

[Rick E Davis]

Update info on the ex-USS John Rodgers

While looking for something else via Google ... I found this site on the ex-John Rodgers that a group plans to bring to the USA in the near future from Mexico (if I read the pages that follow this one right ... is running into trouble from US Govt "Red Tape"). We have discussed this before ... but these are some great detail shots onboard and below deck as well. ... http://www.btconline.us/mt/2006/08/ ... this is a big page with other things than just the John Rodgers, but keep looking. It is not often you get these kinds of close up detailed shots of any ship. Heck you could detail the engine room and INSIDE of your 5"/38cal gun mounts.

Here is a mosaic shot of the ship ... many items are missing, but she looks to be in pretty good shape ... I was surprised how good ... http://www.btconline.us/mt/images/rodge ... lity1.html

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
....I'd like to know what exactly is happening with this old ship.
First off, I am blown away...just seeing that ship still with all of the 5" mounts and the Mk12/22 radars of the main gun director!
40mm's? How long did the Mexican Navy operate this ship?
Is Mr Nowkowski the new owner?
Okay, I went back and did some more reading. First off, I guess that settles the 1 or 2 rudders question. The John Rogers was decommed for 25 years and then made ready for foreign sale, I got that.
The ship is to be towed to the US, right?
I don't see where..is it Mobile Bay?
Restored to its' original condition..wow!
Too cool, Tony B

[Rick E Davis]

To be honest I didn't read all the details on the nature of the group that is trying to bring the ex-USS John Rodgers to the US ... if you have the time I thnk the answers are all in the websites referenced above. I understand that the desired location is Mobile Bay ... with or near the USS Alabama(???). I think that the Mexican Navy decom her about 5-6 years ago. When I was going through the following months of this guys blog ... is that the right term? ... from the one that I linked to ... they appear to have started to dispatch a tugboat a couple of months ago, but it didn't happen. Apparently this organization still needs to get things straight with the USN and MARAD (the organization that handles mothballed ships) ... not just anyone can own a warship without meeting certain conditions ... of which I have no clue on what all they are. I just hope that they suceed since she is the last round bridge Fletcher (then again who knows what other ones have yet to be scrapped?) and has a history to her.

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
I just got through painting the decks on my DD499.
After getting it clear on the Ms12/45 paint scheme. Thanks to Randy Short and Tracy White for their help!
All horizontal surfaces will be Deck Grey 20.
Mix 1 part black to 1 part white...done.
Here are some views with and without flash...



Also, I filled the slots in the main deck astern that were for the depth charge roller racks. I will be using the GMM p/e set fairly extensively on this build. Now with a coat of paint, the Trumpeter deckhouse midships is not noticeable any more.
I will be adding all of the GMM W/T doors pretty soon. Also, the task of decalling the main deck to match the one overhead photo of Renshaw should kick my... ...pretty much!
Thanks for letting me share, Tony

[Rick E Davis]

Tony,
Looking good. One nit ... I assume it was a typo and you meant MS-22 (not MS-12) rev 1945. From what the camo experts say when this was introduced to the fleet ... most (if not all) of the Fletcher's that were given the 14-40mm mod were painted with either MS-21 rev 1945 or MS-22 rev 1945.