Calling all USS Hornet CV-8 fans

[npb748r]

thanks Mark

[npb748r]

I've really enjoyed this build, the 1/200 kit is amazing out of the box and it's enabled me to learn a lot, both with regards to the build and to the actual ship. I've still got so many unanswered questions three of which I was hoping someone would know the answer for certain, both relating to equipment colour, neither being specific to Hornet I guess.

The first one concerns the colour of the tractors on the ship - I assumed yellow but the black and white photos I've found don't help as they show different shades in different pictures. Or would these be camouflaged like the aircraft ?

I'm also adding some interior stuff to the large hanger deck and thought the would be firefighting equipment scattered throughout the ship but I can't find any info on what was used and colour of said equipment (I know WW2 aircraft fire extinguishers were bronze not red, is this the same for USN ships). Adding a few small items of colour on a largely white and grey background would be nice.

Finally, the pictures I've seen of the Hornet prior to sinking shows what appears to be a very weathered painted white wave at the front of the hull. However I've also read that this was just heavy weathering of the hull blue paint so I'm uncertain what this is and therefore how to approach replicating it (I would take a different approach if it's just weathered hull blue paint).

Any expert views on this three would be really helpful

thanks
neil

[ModelMonkey]

The color of deck tractors, moto-tugs, deck jeeps, cranes, and other vehicles is difficult to answer from photos. Comparatively few photos of the Yorktown-class (and other wartime classes) are known to be in original color. Fewer still show any deck tractors at all. There may be documentary evidence and Tracy White, who frequents this site, may be able to answer that question. Absence that, we can turn to photos of other contemporary ships for an answer, such as Essex-class and Independence-class ships.

Photos taken during the war of Essex-class ships indicate that deck tractors and jeeps on board probably varied in color, either gray or olive drab. This may be due to who procured the vehicle under which contract. Different services (Army, Navy) had different equipment procurement responsibility at that time. In other words, one service would be responsible for procuring all of one type of equipment for all services. For example, the Army would be responsible to procure M1 helmets for all services. If the equipment was sourced under an Army contract, it would come painted olive drab and normally be put into service in that color. Likewise, if the equipment was sourced under a Navy procurement contract, it was likely to arrive gray and serve in gray. This means that it is possible to have a gray Navy-procured tractor or moto-tug next to an olive drab Army-procured jeep on the same deck at the same time.

In the first photo shown below, notice that the jeeps appear distinctly darker than the tugs. The jeeps may be olive drab and the tugs may be gray but it is very difficult to know with any certainty from the photo.

Complicating the issue, crews could repaint the equipment to any color if locally directed to do so.

Unfortunately, surviving color photos aren't very helpful; typically, no deck equipment is visible in the photos. And for those few photos where deck equipment is visible, the photo is in black and white, so no joy (see examples below).

Hopefully, Tracy can provide some help in answering your question. Ultimately, it's your model. Paint the equipment to your liking.

Regarding Hornet's colors, the Trumpeter painting guides are a bit off. The sides of the real ship itself were painted in 3 colors: a dark blue, a medium gray (called "ocean gray") and a light gray (called "haze gray") with blue and ocean gray on the hull and ocean gray and haze gray on the island. Trumpeter drawings show only 2 colors, not 3, and the pattern shown in Trumpeter drawings does not match photos of the actual ship. Photos below show the three colors well and the actual pattern.

And yes, evidence suggests that what appears to be a white bow wave is merely worn away paint exposing the primer below (see bottom 2 photos). The actual, official painting scheme used by Hornet, called a "measure", did not include a false bow wave.

Hope this helps!

[npb748r]

Steve, thanks - that does help massively.

I will paint the tugs is OD and Grey so there's some variation. And the bow wave thing is also a great help - it does look more like weathered paint (in fact in one of the photos it looks like the plimsoll line has weathered as well). I now know how I will treat this area when it comes to painting.

As an aircraft modeller, I'm staggered at the amount of reference material available for that side of the hobby compared to ship building (well at least this ship) - I will never again moan about rubbish black & white German WW2 photos as I now know they are perfect as reference in comparison.

thanks again
neil

[ussvf17]

Photo of tractor of CV-8 taken by the research vessel R/V Petrel

[Don Grasmick]

Good Afternoon gents,

I will be attempting a 1:700 Hornet Doolittle Raid build in the not-too-distant future.

Respond here on the thread or pm me, I need your collective HELP!!!!!!

I'd like to ask Yorktown fans and specifically Hornet fans some questions on what model, aftermarket guns and parts, PE, and aircraft to purchase (in 1:700) in order to make a very good rendition of Hornet in her Doolittle Raid guise. I have a few projects I want to do before I put my Hornet on the builders blocks so now is a good time for some long lead questions about what to potentially purchase and what to stay away from. I've steadfastly been doing some of my own research over the past two weeks and I read the CASF Enterprise and Hornet threads from start to finish TWICE and I've learned a lot but there is always more to soak in. My budget is targeted for $125 to $150 dollars US. With that stated, I want to give you my run down of what I think would be more/less required items to purchase. Please feel free to disagree or help me on this purchase journey as many of you reading this post have built your own versions of Hornet and can educate me on what is/isn't needed for a good build. We're ALL rivet counters in our own way. I like accuracy as much as the next guy as I feel it honors the men who served on her, however, keeping in mind the scale will be in 1:700 and not in 1:350 and the budgetary constraints I've placed on purchases will dictate how I approach the subject. So, below is the list I've put together thus far:

After reading JTninja's VERY HELPFUL post in the CASF Enterprise thread from 04/15/2025 about comparing hulls, I went with Tom Modelworks (700-05) Hornet (at the waterline) hull replacement kit. The model will not be full hull anyway. Shout out to Rich Harden @ Tom's....great guy, very helpful!!!!!!

With that said, it appears to me that as far as kit selection goes that Trumpeters Hornet kit (TRP 5727) is the nominal winner as there are multiple aftermarket items that are specifically configured to this Trumpeter kit.

I've chosen Model Monkeys (700 CV-8) Island replacement for Hornet because...well...why not make it a little easier, right? lol. Seriously, Model Mokey's rendition is by all I've read in the CASF threads, the most accurate island. Also based on the CASFs threads, it appears from what I've read that there are no clear winners from a manufacturer stance that got the island, or any of the three ships for that matter, correct. MM replacement island is also made for the above listed Trumpeter kit.

I'm debating between the Artwox (AW20134) wood deck for the above listed Trumpeter Hornet kit or the Ship Yard Works (700146) wood deck, also for Trumpeter kit 5727, which comes already painted in deck blue 20-B measure; albeit a not as dark version, but the internet is deceiving, don't trust it completely, lol. I've had good success with Artwox in the past, but I really don't know which way to go here. *Note: shipyard is two words intentionally as that's how the company lists themselves on eBay).

Now on to aftermarket armaments. There are some very good 3-D printing companies for the ship's "guns". However, budget is the key word here and I don't wish to pay an arm and a leg to have to purchase multiple sets. To me, it's not aesthetically pleasing to see overly detailed weapons mounts on a bland model, so, please guide me to reasonably detailed "guns" while being budget friendly. I'm wide open to suggestion.

While I haven't received the kit yet, I'm aware the Trumpeter kit only comes with 12 B-25Bs Seriously? WTF?!?!?!? The ship is specifically modeled for the Doolittle raid for crying out loud. This can only be surmised as a ploy to have a modeler buy the Trumpeter aircraft set for the B25B (kit #TRP3401) ...which comes with 18 bombers, yet there were only 16 bombers on the raid. I may just ask or plead for the collective generosity of the forum to please send me 4 additional bombers that may be anyone's stash in order to get the correct number of bombers to supplement the kits included 12 aircraft. If anyone knows of a good aftermarket company that is deemed better than the Trumpeter aircraft set, I'm all ears.

I know it seems that by my above stated items list, it would seem I'm leaning towards all things Trumpeter. I assure you, it's just how the research fleshed out for me is all.

Ive intentionally left PE off the list as I have enough spare WWII PE sprues that I think I can reasonably get by with parts from my abundant PE spare sprue stash, lol. However, as implied above, this is an open invitation to guide me on what would be a reasonable choice. My initial personal thought is Toms Model works set (#776) for the Yorktown class as it is reasonably prices and relatively easy to work with. So, if you want to tell me about what PE would ideally work with the above listed items or would be a good dedicated choice for Hornet...fire away!

Lastly, there is the camo or measure pattern (measure 12) issue. I know gator masks is long since out of business, but is there a masking retailer out there that I'm just not familiar with that has the measure 12 pattern? Otherwise, the collective "wisdom" of YouTube would indicate that I use modeling putty for ease of paint application to a "curvy" camo pattern. What does everyone out there use for removable model putty? I have this underlying concern that my putty will dry up and act like concrete when it's time to remove which is why I asked about a masking retailer first.

Again, I appreciate any/all feedback or direction with this future build. Maybe it will also help someone else down the line and not just me.

[MartinJQuinn]

I'm debating between the Artwox (AW20134) wood deck for the above listed Trumpeter Hornet kit or the Ship Yard Works (700146) wood deck, also for Trumpeter kit 5727, which comes already painted in deck blue 20-B measure; albeit a not as dark version, but the internet is deceiving, don't trust it completely, lol. I've had good success with Artwox in the past, but I really don't know which way to go here. *Note: shipyard is two words intentionally as that's how the company lists themselves on eBay).

Hornet's deck was Norfolk 250N. Not as dark as deck blue, so the Artwok deck might actually more accurate.

Now on to aftermarket armaments. There are some very good 3-D printing companies for the ship's "guns". However, budget is the key word here and I don't wish to pay an arm and a leg to have to purchase multiple sets. To me, it's not aesthetically pleasing to see overly detailed weapons mounts on a bland model, so, please guide me to reasonably detailed "guns" while being budget friendly. I'm wide open to suggestion.

If you order from BlackCat, ask him to sell you multiples of what you need, he might bundle and save you a bit.

Bunker Studio makes 3D printed B-25s. However, it's outside of your budget: https://ebay.io/m/8vPBdK

Yao's Studio makes them as well, more budget friendly: https://ebay.io/m/IADiVX

Lastly, there is the camo or measure pattern (measure 12) issue. I know gator masks is long since out of business, but is there a masking retailer out there that I'm just not familiar with that has the measure 12 pattern? Otherwise, the collective "wisdom" of YouTube would indicate that I use modeling putty for ease of paint application to a "curvy" camo pattern. What does everyone out there use for removable model putty? I have this underlying concern that my putty will dry up and act like concrete when it's time to remove which is why I asked about a masking retailer first.

I partially used Gator's Masks for my 1/350 Hornet, but also made my own for the island. David Doyle's Hornet book is indispensable for accurately capturing her camouflage, which most modelers get wrong, or at least not 100% accurate.

Try getting a light board to trace the pattern onto paper, then make your own masks, which is what I did.

Finally, good luck!!

[Don Grasmick]

Martin,

As always, sound advice and sound solutions! Thank you, Sir. I spent the better part of today doing some cost analysis with known suppliers.

For the deck - at least I now know my 53-yr old mk. 1 eyeballs haven't completely failed me. Norfolk 250N now makes complete sense as to why the deck appears lighter than 20-B deck blue. One more check in the box made. For those interested, for clarification, the Artwox deck isn't painted at all.

FYI, those Yao aircraft look legit and as you stated also appear budget friendly. I can only hope the rivets are not quite as pronounced in person as the pictures seem to make them out to be.

Both Blackcat and L' Arsenal are on the short list of possible suppliers. What are everyone's thoughts on any other suppliers out there? I was hoping Squadrons off shoot of Blur Ridge model was still in the game but doesn't appear so.

On the note of armaments: For the 20mm Oerlikons were they open tripod like stanchions or closed "conical" looking pedestals? This is not only a detail I wish to "get right" but it's also a matter of difference in price!

I WILL look into the David Doyle's book. Thank you for suggestion as well as the light table. I have a tattoo artist who might still have one. I haven't used one since HS. This might be a better solution than the modeling clay I've seen utilized on YouTube.

I can always count on Martin to lend a helpful hand in this endeavor. I know so many of you have tackled this project already, either in 1:700 or 1:350. I really don't wish to learn as I go on this. I'm old enough to know to ask from those who went before me on this and to lean into hearing your trial/tribulations/best practices regarding building Hornet. Please gents let me read the knowledge of this subject you have to impart!!!!

[MartinJQuinn]

My pleasure, happy to help.

FYI, those Yao aircraft look legit and as you stated also appear budget friendly. I can only hope the rivets are not quite as pronounced in person as the pictures seem to make them out to be.

I've bought various aircraft from Yao's - in both 700 & 350 - and they have all been good quality.

On the note of armaments: For the 20mm Oerlikons were they open tripod like stanchions or closed "conical" looking pedestals? This is not only a detail I wish to "get right" but it's also a matter of difference in price!

Definitely closed. The open tripod mounts didn't start appearing until later in the war, as a weight saving measure, especially for the introduction of the twin 20mm mounts.

Here's a photo of Enterprise testing out twin and triple 20mm guns in July 1943, and the pedestals were still solid.