The Ship Model Forum

At the Fleet's In model warship show on board USS NORTH CAROLINA a couple weeks ago, my main entry was my 1/200 scale model of USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62). While at the show, I noticed that the 5"-gun mounts and Mk. 56 FC directors were once again showing signs of paint blotching and surface crystallization. Here is what I'm talking about - This has ONLY occurred with 3D printed parts that were purchased thru Shapeways back when their normal product material was an opaque, white resin. Although they had mentioned at the time that they recommended using acrylic paint, I don't use acrylics and painted these with Testor spray/bottle enamel. Initially, I did not see any problems until last year and then went ahead and repainted 5" mount surfaces where needed. This time around, the Mk. 56 FC directors/RADAR dishes were also showing signs of both discoloration & crystallization. So, rather than mess around and waste time repainting AGAIN - I am making my own 3D parts (also with a higher level of details) using the Rapid Black Resin from Phrozen. As I had 3D files already made in other scales of both these parts, it was simply a matter of rescaling, correcting for thickness & stability, and printing. Today, I hope to have the last of these parts printed and ready for painting (Mr. Color Spray/Bottle lacquers) and assembly. The ship model will enter drydock for an unscheduled upkeep & replacement period while this work is performed.

Here are the 5" mounts with new and more detailed top hatch hydraulic closing unit - Redesigning the top hatch closing mechanism was an interesting side project as my original one was rather simple and less detailed. Here are the two (open/closed0 units I've come up with based on an illustration of the gun mount from the side - While the hatches are hard to see with the blast shield in place, I think this still makes for a higher level of details for the overall gun mount. And more importantly, they have printed out well even at 1/200 scale. Currently I am printing (2) of the mounts with the closed hatch and no blast shield (forwardmost 5" mounts on either side) and (8) of the 5" mounts with open hatch/blast shield.

Next, the Mk. 56 FC director & RADAR are already printed and ready for painting/assembly. With a bit of thickening of the handrails, I have been able to get really good results in printing. Here's the design pix - Hopefully tonight after my last print run finishes, I'll be able to begin cleanup, painting, and assembly in prep for installation.

Once we were home from the Veteran's Day meal at Golden Corral, I went and checked on the printer. Everything came out excellently and is now drying. Here is a shot or two of the 5" gun mount just after being printed - This is the version with open hatch & Blast Shield in place. Here is a shot of the closed hatch w/o the Blast Shield - The 2nd round of barrels all came out very well this time, so I have a few spares at the moment.

My Mk. 56 FC Directors all came out excellently, as well. I just didn't take any photos yet as they are still in their printing supports and hard to visualize.

Hank

Very nice work.

Good that you were able to correlate the cause of the original bubbling/crinkling of the paint.

I had to strip the paint off the entire flight deck of my Bonnie - turns out the green spray paint I was using doesn't seem to cure properly, so putting on a second layer even after a week of drying wasn't enough.

Great job on the new turrets!

Brad,

Thanks for the nice comments on my gun mounts!! Sorry about your deck - I saw that on your post and wondered what the issue was. I guess once again, using 3D resin parts and various types of paints don't always mix - or in your case the paint and curing/drying was the issue. There was a brand of sprays that I was using a few years back and I quite because they never seemed to dry or cure properly. A shame because their shades of gray worked well.

After closer examination, I may have to do another print run on the mounts - a few of the blast shields were separated due to thickness - I'll need to increase that and re-run them. Scaling parts up/down without compensation for various factors (thickness of material being one!) usually means problems with the modified part.

Hank

I was having a problem with printing the mounts WITH the top hatch closing mechanism so I tried printing them as separate parts. Keep in mind that these items are about 3/16" high, so very tiny. That didn't prove well either. So, I thought perhaps changing the aspect ratio in Chitubox (slicing/printing program) of the width (X & Y) but leaving the height untouched (Z) might work. It did!!!

Here are a couple shots of the hatch mechanism in open and closed position: I added 0.25% to the X & Y printing dimensions which enabled all of the parts to print correctly. So, this proved to me that designing the parts to dimension is good - as long as you can go into the printing program and modify as needed to ensure successful prints. Tomorrow I will pick 8 of the best mount bodies with blast shield and 2 of the best mount bodies w/o blast shied and begin adding these tiny parts to them and then begin painting.

Hank

Before leaving earlier this week for a mission trip to WNC to help w/disaster relief efforts, I was able to get the Mk. 56 FC Directors reprinted and painted. Here is a shot of one of these (6 total) units that will replace the commercially purchased ones that have paint & crystallization issues (like the 5" gun mounts) - This needs a small amount of paint touch-up, "glassing" in the canopy windows, and adding the RADAR (also printed & painted). I hope to get some of the work done this week and will finish hopefully next week some time. Installing the mounts and FC directors on the model will come soon after once some room in the shop becomes available.

Hank

I've now finished painting both the mounts and the Mk. 56 FC directors - I think the details on both items came out really well - these are, after all, 1/200 scale parts, so rather tiny. And... the commerical equivalents don't have nearly any of the fine details I've been able to achieve. Not bragging, just glad that my detailed design work was actually printable.

Perhaps after Christmas I'll have some space in the shop to open the case and begin the replacement of these parts on the ship model.

Hank

Hank,

That is very good detail for 1:200 scale!

Phil

DrPR wrote:Hank,
That is very good detail for 1:200 scale!
Phil

Phil,
Thanks so much - the compliment is well received!!

But the problem with all that fine detail is in handling those parts. Extreme care must be taken which is why I've printed quite a few extras as those fine details quite often get broken while trying to hold the parts for painting, etc.

If you followed my large scale gun mount projects then you know where the original file came from - I simply scaled that "not to scale" file up to a known size (1/48) and then reduced it to 1/200. I only made a couple of structural changes in the parts (baseplate) in order for them to fit properly and then ran a print. It worked out and surprisingly enough, most of those fine details printed. Here is a photo of that larger mount - I did redesign the upper hatch hydraulic unit and blast shield for the 1/200 scale mount as they needed a bit of beefing up.


Glad you are on board this thread!

Hank

I have tried to print ladder rungs at 1:96 scale. They should be 0.008 to 0.01 inch diameter. They sometimes printed but are so fragile they break at any occasion - I think I could blow on them and break them!

I tried printing 0.01 inch diameter holes so I could use 0.008 inch brass wire for the ladder rungs, but the holes were always plugged with resin, leaving only dimples. If/when I get a small precision milling machine I may try drilling the holes. I have been thinking about how I can make the life rails from 0.008, 0.01 and 0.012 inch diameter brass wire.

The printer's resolution is 0.005 inch horizontal and 0.001 inch vertical. The resin is very brittle. Because it is so brittle I gave up on trying to get any detail at 1:96. Everything would break before I got it assembled to the model. And the small detail parts like life rails sag and are distorted when I try to print them. So for me 3D printing has mostly been a waster of time for fine detail, but great for propellers, anchors and such.

I would really like to have a printer with 0.003H (or better) x 0.001V resolution, and a resin that was flexible when cured.

Phil

DrPR wrote:I have tried to print ladder rungs at 1:96 scale. They should be 0.008 to 0.01 inch diameter. They sometimes printed but are so fragile they break at any occasion - I think I could blow on them and break them!

Phil,
Well, to be honest, I can't say that all of my rungs are "exact" scaled in thickness. They have printed at 1/200 scale (obviously!) so to scale up to 1/96 would not be a problem. Maybe it's the type of resin I'm using - Phrozen Rapid Black water washable. It does have a small amount of flex to it so it's not brittle like their Model Gray resin.

As for the holes, I've experienced the same thing - holes just slightly larger than the pins which are intended to be inserted into the hole but when printed they usually close up and are not clean holes. At least there is usually enough of an indentation that I can take my Dremel tool and drill out the hole which solves the problem (with a bit of effort, however!). MY current printer in an AnyCubic Photon Mono X 6K.

The rungs on my 1/200 scale mounts are 0.24mm (design) dia. so slightly thicker than would be - not taking into consideration any shrinkage, although there is virtually no shrinkage that I've found using the Rapid Black resin. Personally, I don't feel this needed thickness distracts from the appearance of the parts.

I have purchased a jug of Phrozen "Tough" gray resin but haven't as yet set up a print file or settings file in Chitubox to test it out. Unless I've missed seeing a conversion table, using a resin from another printer vendor is currently something that requires the modeler to figure out what settings work best.

Hank

With the change to warm weather and help from The Admiral, NEW JERSEY went into drydock yesterday and we removed the display case - Here's a shot of the stbd side and the 5" mounts & Mk. 56 FC Directors with mottled paint can be seen; these are the items to be replaced - Last night I was successful in removing the stbd side parts without any problems (rather surprising given that I couldn't remember how much cement had been used to adhere them in place) - This also includes removing the old stbd side Mk. 56 FCDs which came off easily, as well!
So far, this yard period is working out well...

I surveyed my new 5" mounts and found some units that needed further touch up and/or replacement - so, that was last night's work - painting is complete and I've gone to the parts dept. for spares which I had previously printed and had an ample supply from which to choose the best of the bunch.

Today's job will be to grind off the original pins on the base plates of each mount location, sand smooth, and drill thru a new hole for the 2mm pin in the base plate of the new gun mount.

Hank

Murphy's Law strikes again!!!
Last night's work came to a halt when I realized that the baseplates for the 5" mounts were incorrect - I had rescaled the mount parts for my large-scale gun mount (2024 project) and had forgotten that the round barbette below the baseplate should have been removed for this particular usage. So, the redesign & print setup only took about 20 minutes, but I ended up reprinting those baseplates with the printer in sort of a "jury-rigged" location in the shop - all came out fine but now I've got to survey my remaining gun mount parts and see if 10 are available that have all the details correct and if not, get those reprinted. Nothing that can't be done, just a small detour in the replacement process.

The baseplate is now correct - I've also decided to replace my scratch-built RADAR antenna on the foremast with 3D design/printed units that I rescaled from my 1/144 scale USS STODDARD project - if these print out ok, then that will happen; if not, then no changes will be made. These two RADAR units are the AN/SPS-6C and AN/SPS-10 - With RB resin stretched thin, I'm hoping to print (3) of each of these antennas in order to hopefully get at least one successful and useable unit.

Hank

Surprisingly enough, all the RADAR units (3 of each type) printed out well. Only after trying to remove the supports did my butterfingers mess up one of each!!! The Admiral threatened to report my inefficiency to DOGE!!!

But here are examples of these tiny parts - Here is a shot of the mast & RADARs as built - I'm thinking the new 3D printed parts will be installed in this project!!!

Hank

In spite of the printer being in a make-shift location, I've successfully printed my new 5in mount bodies and all came out extremely well! I've also located the drawing I had made years ago for the 3 pdr. saluting gun (NJ had 2 on each side) and have now printed those items, as well - here's a shot of the design of those tiny guns - So, this "yard period" is turning out to be quite successful in that I'm replacing & adding some parts that hitherto had either needed replacing or adding in the first place!

I hope to get the new mounts painted over this weekend (maybe!!) and then installed on the stbd side. Then, turn the model around and work the port side.

Hank

Hank,

The NJ had 3 pounder saluting guns? I thought by WWII they were using 40 mm saluting guns. 40 mm blank shells. That is what the cruisers had.

Phil

DrPR wrote:Hank,
The NJ had 3 pounder saluting guns? I thought by WWII they were using 40 mm saluting guns. 40 mm blank shells. That is what the cruisers had.
Phil

Phil,
Well, now that you've brought it up, I'll have to check on that - I just "assumed" that the 3 pdr. was installed. Boy, shouldn't I have learned about "assuming" things in Boot Camp???

Luckily, I have those items painted but not mounted in place. You wouldn't have any plans available for the 40mm model, would you? This is one of those pieces of ordnance that usually gets overlooked on most models. I don't have any real close up pix of those saluting platforms.

Hank

9:15 am Edit - The 1950 BoGP for MISSOURI and the 1956 BoGP for WISCONSIN show (2) 6lb. saluting guns on each side. The 1955 BoGP for NEW JERSEY calls out (2) saluting guns but doesn't give the size. My 1967 BoGP for NEW JERSEY is rolled up and I'll need to consult it. I'm pretty sure that those saluting guns were not changed during her 1967 refit but will dig out the drawing just to make sure!

I dug out the 1967 BoGP for BB-62 and the saluting guns are not specified as to the size of the gun, etc., only that 2 of them would be shipped - In addition, here is the plan view of that area of the deck showing the 2 saluting guns - Here is the 1956 BoGP for BB-64 in which the saluting guns are actually called out - I did find a few photos of the saluting guns on USS SALEM (CA-139) as a museum ship and these are closer to what I recall as being on board NEW JERSEY during her 3rd commission - So, without being able to locate a copy of BuOrd Pamphlet 1112, First Revision, which would more than likely have the 6 pd cannon listed, I'll 3D design/print the version on board USS SALEM and we'll call it a day; this I think, approximates the version as close as I can determine at the current time.

Hank

Here is the completed saluting gun such as the photo of the USS SALEM shows - I'll probably print these tomorrow.

Well, things have progressed on this overhaul and I've been able to find more information on one of the weapon systems we had on board - the Mk. 28 ZUNI Chaff Launchers. My original scratch built versions were rather crude - As such, I have wanted to replace these with something more detailed and correct. I finally found information regarding these launchers and have now 3D design/printed those parts and they are installed - The devil is in the details! These now look correct and I'm happy with the results!

Another couple items that I've 3D designed and printed are the two stern whip antenna platforms and the starboard refueling boom. I may have to do some further design on the antenna platforms as these are quite tiny and will need patience to assemble with the antenna wire and then install. Adjustments are part of the game. All (10) 5" gun mounts are now complete and in place (no glue). I'm debating whether or not to use a drop on each mount bottom or leave as is; leaning towards a tiny drop just to make sure they don't come loose. The AN-SPS-6C RADAR antenna is in place and I hope to install the AN-SPS-6C tomorrow. I managed to mess up the platform railing while removing the original antenna so I 3D des/printed the railing and will make a final adjustment to that design tonight and reprint in the morning. The original railings are all PE from PONTOS but the 3D versions simply look better although are a beach to handle as they're much more delicate than the PE brass parts are.

Hank