The Ship Model Forum

Phil, I'm on page 80-something of the thread, "Calling all USS Iowa class fans", taking notes of all information that appears relevant to what I wish to do. Haven't yet delved into other threads in any meaningful way. I will email Tom and inquire.

Inch, thank you much for that information.

I have finished redrawing the loft lines from the FDD drawings. I'll see what I get and post here.

Brian C. / Cedar Rapids, Iowa

I have a section of deck planking from the USS Missouri (BB-63) from her modernization prior to the 1986 recommissioning. It is 5" wide and 2 1/8" thick.

Brain,

From the Navsource photo I would guess the deck planks are 6 inches wide.

Have you posted your questions elsewhere on this Forum - on the battleships thread?

You should email Tom at Floating Dry Dock. He served on battleships, and will certainly know the widths of the planks. He must also know where to get the Table of Offsets.

Phil

Here's the deck photo I mentioned above. Summer 1951, getting ready for Korean War service. What width are the decking boards, if you'd care to guesstimate? -Brian C.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016130m.jpg

T, thanks much for your BB63 deck photos. I will find a way to add the lip (0.020" brass wire, maybe, or 0.020" styrene rod). In your second photo, the wood decking doesn't look quite as wide as a b&w photo I saw the other day of Iowa (early 1950s?). I was surprised at how wide the boards appeared, based on the width of the sailors' boots (term?). And, during 1980s renovations, was the rotten decking replaced according to a plan?

Phil, as a Cedar Rapids journalist, in 1980 I was given permission to visit Iowa in Philadelphia (in reserve? mothballed?). A couple of junior officers guided me, eager to get aboard any chance they got. We climbed inside Turret 2 (probably the turret officer's booth; I think about that turret visit now and then. . .). Later, the officers gave me a couple of teak wood plugs from the decking; there were a number of them, iirc, popped up here and there. Not much to be made from the size of the plugs, probably? Just measured one, 1.125" dia., 1/2" deep.

I'm aware from postings here at TSMF that the decking of the four 1980s renovated Iowas varied, particularly in the helo area.

I have recollection of emailing FDD some time ago and asking if TOO are available. I think the response was no. Maybe I had better inquire again. And contact the PBC, since I'm a peripheral member of the group (I send a very modest check annually). Maybe someone there will help with information.

So, the last few days I reviewed the plans I have on hand (including a scale 1:96 package from FDD). I rediscovered that FDD front and aft hull views include twice as many sections/stations as the ones I used previously (from Dulin & Garzke book, I think). And all the section lines rise to the main deck level, unlike the G&D drawing of some of the aft stations.

So, I've tossed all my hull CAD work so far and have begun anew with the FDD drawings. Without the TOO, is this likely the best I can do? Might it lead to a hull shape that cannot be faulted by eye? -Brian

Brian,

What was the width and thickness of the deck planks? Maximum margin boards width? Minimum margin board width?

On the Clevelands the deck planks werre 4" wide x 2" thick, margin boards were nominally 9" wide, with a minimum width of 6". Deck planks were notched (nibbed) into the margin boards no deeper than would still leave 6" of margin board. I suspect these dimensions were all greater on battleships.

Also, the margin boards were 2 1/2" thick along edges that bordered deck houses, hatches, vents, etc., and 2" thick along edges that bordered the deck planking. This helped keep water from pooling next to metal parts that would rust of corrode. Of course 1/2" is insignificant at 1:120 (or even 1:72) so it isn't something to bother with. But it is nice to know in case you are trying to interpret detailed decking plans.

I would be very surprised if the waterways were 8" wide. It looks like the stanchion bases were the same as on the Clevelands (they were pretty much standard on all types of ships). The base attached to the metal bar along the edge of the wood deck and arched over the waterway to join the hull plating. The distance was 15". Also, the chocks were 15" thick and spanned the waterways - during WWII there was an open channel under the chock to allow water to flow along the waterway to the nearest deck drain. Chocks were also standardized throughout the fleet (but there were smaller versions for smaller ships). They might have been larger on battleships and carriers.

One thing you might do is write to the USS Iowa or USS Massachusetts museums and ask about dimensions. I have found that the folks at museums are happy to answer questions. In one case a fellow even scanned an operating and maintenance manual - complete with drawings - for a piece of equipment! I have even found fellows in the volunteer maintenance crews who would send me photos and measurements for things I was curious about.

****

The Table of Offsets is usually included on the hull lines drawing. For modelling it is extremely accurate - giving dimensions to +/- 1/16 inch 1:1 scale. That's pretty good for building the real thing! You may be able to get a copy of the original hull lines drawing from The Floating Drydock:

http://www.floatingdrydock.com/

Also, Tom Walkowiak at the Floating Drydock loves battleships and is an authority on them. Just email him and he will tell you which plans have the information you want. His drawings are a lot easier to get and cheaper than going through the National Archives!!!!!

The Table of Sight Edges that tells where the edges of the hull plating strakes were located is an altogether different problem. It will be buried somewhere in the thousands of blueprint drawings. But it is the only way to place hull plating strake edges accurately.

Phil

Some photos showing the "bead" at the top of the shell plating. Not a good photo of the waterway, unfortunately the kid barrier placed inboard most places obscures it. It appears to be about a hand span wide, about 8". Note the rubber fenders and storage!

Looking at some large 1948 photos the bead is there at the hull lip.

As far as the rounded lip, on my 1:192 modern Missouri I used a piece of wire along the upper lip of the hull and thought it was a good textural addition. As to the waterway, on my ship it runs between the lip and the individual deck planking that I used.

You can do a lot of great detail in the 1:120 scale. Not sure why it's not a popular scale, for we inch users nothing more convenient than using a digital caliper to almost automatically read off feet. Fairly easy to handcraft things such as inclined ladders, searchlights, chocks, and whatnot. There is a tendency for people to get away from this and buy components. I really admire Song in his devotion to real scratch building, all the way. It is a wonderful challenge to hand craft many more complicated components.

Yours is a big project! Good luck!

Phil, much, much appreciate the link to your Ok City (that an 'approved' abbreviation?) build. Gorgeous 3D drawing of your ship, too.

I'm reading your entire build thread. Just came across this comment of yours:

-------------
If you are building a 1:1 scale CAD model or large scale physical model the Table of Offsets is a far more accurate way to create the hull than working from a crude drawing of station lines.
-------------

So, I'm questioning whether to proceed with my project without acquiring a set of TOO for an Iowa Class ship. So far, I have not found such a table. Perhaps the National Archives will be my only source, if it possesses such a document.

-Brian

Brian,

I had similar problems when trying to create the CAD model of the hull for the USS Oklahoma City CLG-5. If a transition was too sharp the hull surface wrinkled like plastic wrap. I had to use about a dozen individual grids. You can find a discussion of this here (posts #5 and #6):

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19321- ... cad-model/

Phil

As always, thanks much, Phil and T.

I've got some hull work to do, as the images below reveal. I am going to have to separate the skeg geometry from the hull form, create the skegs form separately, I think. But, minus the skegs, I don't know that the information is there to correctly shape the hull. Anyway. . . . -Brian
Front View
Rear View - The hull contortions are evident. Also, to the left at deck level is some sort of form error.
Side View - The black wavy line about 1/3 down from the top of the hull must indicate something about my drawing. Guessing it's a CAD artifact of some sort. Jump in, please, if anyone has information.

Liquid loading was part of the side protection scheme, which has some layers liquid loaded and some empty, the idea to dampen and absorb effects of torpedo explosions and near misses, mines etc. I probably have some photos of the waterways on Missouri, somewhere.

Brian,

The waterway is the main deck plating. The wooden deck is added on top of the metal decking. On the Clevelands the edge of the wooden deck extends outward to 15 inches from the edge of the main deck and the part of the hull plating that extends above the deck. The Cleveland decking is 2 inches thick, and a 2 x 3/8 inch flat bar is welded to the deck along the edge of the wood. The waterway is between this 3/8 inch piece and the hull plating. The dimensions will vary with ship type, but the idea is the same.

This method applies only to ships with hull plating extending above the main deck. Some of the cruisers had rounded hull edges, where the hull plating rose to a curved part that faired into the main deck. The curved part appears to have had a radius of about 8 to 12 inches. I don't recall the actual radius, although I did create a CAD model of one of the heavy cruiser hulls maybe 12 years ago. I must have the blueprints here somewhere.

****

The little hooks welded to the hull plating at the bow overhang are called "lady fingers." They are used to support scaffolding for painting. You also find them along the sides of the superstructure where canvas awnings are attached and at the tops of smoke pipes (funnels) for attaching canvas covers over the openings when the boilers are cold. They also appear at places where lines are frequently attached temporarily, such as for bumpers that are hung over the side.

If a Chief or deck Division Officer decides he needs another lady finger, he calls the engineers and has them send up a guy with a torch and weld another piece wherever he wants it. The older the ship, the more lady fingers, cleats, padeyes and other trivia accumulate. These small details ensure than no two ships are exactly alike.

****

The water pouring out of openings in the hull sides is from several sources. Some of it is brine from the evaporators (fresh water generators). Some is from toilets being flushed. Some comes from waste water drains from lavatories, showers, drinking fountains, the galley, etc. Some comes from deck drains when the decks are being washed down. Some is from pumps draining voids.

Sewage is normally stored in tanks in port and then dumped overboard at sea.

Liquid ballast normally isn't dumped overboard (except on submarines) - that would lighten the ship and change it's handling characteristics. It is just pumped between ballast tanks to maintain the desired trim port/starboard and fore/aft. Sometimes sea water is pumped into fuel tanks to maintain the proper trim as the fuel is consumed, and then dumped overboard when more fuel is taken on.

If all of the fuel and ballast were removed the center of gravity would rise, and that would increase the chance the ship would "turn turtle" (capsize). In addition to liquid ballast some ships have tons of pig iron ballast in the voids to ensure that the ship won't capsize when tanks and voids are emptied for cleaning and painting.

Phil

I've got the Iowa hull stations in Fusion 360 software drawing ready to skin. I've posted a couple of views below. If I don't get the hull skinned tonight will do tomorrow.

I'm leery about some of the aft hull lines that truncate before reaching main deck level. We'll see what happens. And, even though I intend to do a water level model, I was intrigued about CAD drawing the entire hull, so I did.

BTW, I used 43-foot sections for the stations 0-20 (860 feet). The bow (-)16-foot section adds up to 876 feet. I'm missing a horizontal round of 4 feet at the tip of the bow that I'll have to create geometrically later. And, the hull ends 7-feet 3-inches short. I'll have to create that geometry, too. Add it all up and the hull length is 887-feet 3-inches. (The drawing colors are annoying, I haven't yet explored whether they're controllable.)

T, the 2-1/2" round figure is very helpful. In 1:120 scale, that's about 0.021", much easier to draw in 3D than model, maybe.

I must ask you and Phil, though, is the 'waterway' the same as the 'main deck'?

Did not know what a 'padeye' was before, either. Much enjoy learning as I go, good stuff for an Iowan (in my case synonymous with landlubber). So, as the bow narrows, on the hull plating a number of eyebolts are seen. Are these used with the padeyes to provide support for hull painting?

Another landlubber question, in many at-sea photos shown is water pouring at several locations from the side of the hulls. Something to do with ballast, or pumping out voids? -Brian

On the cruisers the waterway was 15" wide. On the inboard side a 2" x 3/8" steel flat bar was welded to the deck plating along the narrow edge. The 2" thick wooden deck margin boards fit flush against this bar.

The upper hull plating strake extended above the main deck at the same angle as the main part of the strake, so at the bow the plating angled outward. The attached image shows part of the blueprints for the Clevelands.

When was the "round bead" (a cut pipe) added to the top of the hull plating? The photos I looked at of the Iowa in WWII did not show an obvious bead, but it looks like later photos might.

You are modelling the ship after the 1960s conversions, so the bead might have been added by then. I visited the ship in Long Beach in 1969 near the end of the conversions. Somewhere I have photos I think. But I have no idea where they are right now.

Phil

On the outboard of the waterway the shell plating (60 LB abeam the citadel) is topped with about a 2 1/2" round bead. The waterway has an inboard lip which is about flush with the wooden decking which is secured to the main deck plating with studs welded to the deck, nuts and sealed with a plug. On a model, this round bead at the lip of the hull adds a lot of visual and textural appeal.

One of the features of the flare at the bow is several rows of padeyes used to support staging for painting etc. Hank did a nice job on these for his 1:200 model.

I don't know if any of that is helpful.

Cheers: T

On the Iowa Class ship photos I looked at today, only a handful were taken to reveal the extended plating. From at least the bow to behind Turret One, the plating appears to be the same height (4"-6"?) and with a round at the top.

At the bow, though, the plating flares outward, seen in the photo below.

Those are some nice 3D drawings that you linked.

-Brian

I don't have the blueprints for the Iowa class, but looking at photos on Navsource it is clear that the hull plating extends above the waterway at the side of the main deck.

The same structure was used on the Cleveland class cruisers. At the bow the plating extended only a small amount (3/4") above the main deck. Aft by the forward turret the elevation above the deck grew until abeam of the superstructure it was about 6" above the waterway level. Around the stern the plating extended 3" above the main deck. The dimensions may have been different for the battleships, but the principle appears to be the same.

An angled bracket fit along the join of the waterway and plating, and was riveted to the plating with a double row of rivets. The angle between the deck and the plating varied along the length of the hull. Here are some images showing this riveted angle on the Clevelands:

download/file.php?id=96970&mode=view

download/file.php?id=97743&mode=view

download/file.php?id=97744&mode=view

download/file.php?id=97746&mode=view

Phil

I think I'm on the verge of posting a much better shell than the one I uploaded some weeks ago. But, I have a question: Was the main deck recessed a bit regarding the outer plates? It seems like I've seen, in photos, an 8-inch or so metal ridge above the main deck?

Maybe I'm way off, depend on you guys to tell me. Before I work applying skin to my new station lines, I'd like to know more about this. Thanks much for all your help.

-Brian Chapman / Cedar Rapids, Iowa