The Ship Model Forum

Two years ago I started thinking about an upgrade to the 1/350 Bronco Seawolf model, part of which entailed reworking the pumpjet. Going back and forth with Jacob Gunnarson (apologies, I have this disconnect between forum names and real names and don't recall his forum name) to at least hash out the basics (and get some of the really bad concepts out of the way), I ended up with this; 11 blade screw with 19 pre-stators and post-13 stators. Trying to re-read and baseline emails from 2 years ago and I'm not sure I executed correctly what Jacob was saying, but at least it's miles better from where I started:









The second issue, and where this ultimately stalled, was working out how to print this so that the support structure didn't obliterate the details. Anyhow, I can imagine the Virginia class' pumpjet would basically be similar barring no stators aft of the screw, I think that was my takeaway from Jacob?

Wow that looks great Given that there are no public details about the Seawolf pumpjet beyond the fact that it has a rotor between two stators, I think this is a very plausible-looking model. One thing to check is the size of the duct against satellite images (if you haven't done that already). The Greg Sharpe Seawolf drawing that's out there appears to be remarkably accurate in many respects, but the duct is way too short (and I think the real one looks to have a fair bit of camber to the duct section).

Yeah, the Virginia pumpjet just has a stator upstream of the rotor.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Another good reference for those wanting to model the Virginia is this study, which has some great drawings:

https://www.compositesworld.com/cdn/cms ... _study.pdf

They are a bit bare-bones, but the drawings are quite accurate in regard to hull form and also location of appendages and deck features. It also has some features of other classes that you rarely see in model kits, like the slight taper of the Ohio's sail above the fairwater planes.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Wow, look away from the forums for a couple days and you miss a ton. Happy to help with any projects.

As Vepr said, Blk III and IV are virtually indistinguishable (similar for I and II). For LVA on SDK, they are not symmetrical...port and starboard don't match.

I have plenty of VACL pictures and am happy to support where I can.

I need to get a new hosting site to be able to post some stuff.

Dave

Holy crap...I didn't realize there was so much to say about camels

Dave

Saving that for pier side diorama possibilities if nothing else.....

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi all, I received an updated image from Oto at RCSUBS.CZ on the Block III Virginia main ballast tank forward flood vents. He's completed this for the 1/72 version and will have the 1/144 version completed by Monday. Thanks for the feedback from the group and especially thanks to Oto for taking the time to make this change.

That looks awesome. I truly appreciate Otto's attention to detail.

Dave

It's only been a year since your post... and we already have a new version of the model. Completely redone, more and finer details...just mentioning...actually yesterday we printed the new master model

I just looked on your website and saw the Block I & II Virginias. Unfortunately the photos are too small to discern details. I could not see the anhedrals on the stern in any of the photos. Are they there or separate parts to be assembled onto the hull?

Do you plan to also do later Blocks like III and V?

Thanks!
Tom

_________________
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

In our store you can see only pictures of the old versions that have not been offered for a year or two. Renderings of the new one can be seen on our Facebook page. I don't put links on purpose, because then it would be advertising, and there are rules for that. What we are (literally right now) preparing is Block 3. With some quite interesting solutions. In the stern - everything except the vertical rudder is a separate detail. By the way, how deeply have you studied the Azorian project?

Thanks! The new Virginias have a number of external changes from the first two blocks. Besides the two large missile tubes in the bow, the towed array tube fairing is now no longer half round.

Azorian? I was involved for 5 years up to and including the release of the documentary film and the Norman Polar book. I was recruited by Michael White at the beginning of his journey to make the film. He is the person who is most responsible for bringing the story to light in great detail.

That said, if I had to make a recommendation, I would say watch the film (the CGI is very good at visulazing the technical details) and read the book by David Sharp: "The CIA's Greatest Covert Operation: Inside the Daring Mission to Recover a Nuclear-Armed Soviet Sub". David was in the senior engineer in charge of the Heavy Lift System on the Glomar Explorer and gives a real insider account of the entire mission. His book was finally cleared by the CIA for publication after the film came out. Dave's book is available on Amazon.

The film is here on Amazon Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising- ... B008QTU7QY
The film trailer is here, which will give you some idea about the film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h6rGrzD2VY

_________________
Tom Dougherty
Researcher for: "Project Azorian”
https://www.amazon.com/Azorian-Raising-K-129-Michael-White/dp/B008QTU7QY
"Project Azorian: The CIA and the Raising of the K-129" Book
https://www.usni.org/press/books/project-azorian

Hi Georgi,

I had a look at the rendering on your site, and while it generally looks pretty good, I have some suggestions:

Most models I have seen online (including the HobbyBoss kit) seem to stem from the same drawings which depict the Virginia without her hull coating. In reality the submarine's exterior surface after the hull coating is applied is very smooth, without the large rectangular raised sections present in these drawings. For example, there shouldn't be any significant raised detail on the top of the stern.

Most models don't represent the WAA well. The fairings are smooth and rounded:



And the spacing is often wrong, especially for the aft array. Note how the aft WAA fairing spreads out to accommodate the change in hull curvature at the stern. This drawing is very accurate in terms of hull shape (another common pitfall) and the depiction of the WAA fairings (note that the forward WAA fairing is about six feet further forward than a normal Virginia because of the LVA):

https://i.imgur.com/7HJC9n5.png

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

A small detail, but as there are no post-screw-stators on the Virginias, is the screw boss trailing edge fixed, or attached to the screw (and thus rotates with the screw)?

Also, I note that most of the model kits seem to depict the screw being well aft in the shroud, like almost at the trailing edge of the shroud. Any ideas how realistic that is? Would expect the leading stators are designed to work in conjunction with the screw and thus the screw's proximity to them seems to make more sense?

Found this, seems to be about in the middle of the duct? 7-blades?

https://i.imgur.com/x3997Xl.jpg

Yes, the boss is bolted to the rotor and rotates with it. For it to be stationary it would have to be attached to the duct with stator vanes or via a rigid shaft that goes through the main shaft and the reduction bull gear.

The ring ahead of the rotor contains the stator and is the forward-most part of the duct, which should give some indication of the rotor's position.

Jacob

_________________
Under Construction:
1/350 Typhoon
1/350 Skate
1/350 USS Nautilus
1/350 Tang
1/350 November
1/350 Hotel II
1/350 Alfa
1/350 George Washington
1/72 Type VIIC

Having been overly committed to detailed drydock tours as SDO, I regularly crawled up the scaffolding and climbed into the propulsor. The screw sits basically centered in the shroud.

Dave

The Block 4 and 5's are different in multiple ways:

The fwd MBT intakes are the same aft. This saves money by simplifying and standardizing the design.

The sail cap is different to accommodate the new radar, which is round, not rectangular as has been the case for decades with the BPS-15.

One optronic mast has been changed to a much lower profile style to minimize visibility.

Even the clamshell doors for the masts and antennas have been changed to rectangular, from the Y-shaped design.

Block 5 hulls will sport an extra vertical array nearly in-line with the aft end of the second hatch behind the sail. And of course, there's the VPM of which no pictures exist yet, just NAVSEA presentation renderings which vary.

EB will have more pics as the hull comes together during the next two years.

Here's a set of 1/72 masts and antennas I designed and printed recently based on the Block 4: