Calling all USS Enterprise CV-6 fans

[Dick J]

Based on the photos, by Santa Cruz, both Enterprise and Hornet appear to have had circular steel plates welded over all of the portholes below the level of the hangar deck. But I don't have any definitive supporting documentation for that.

[BilltheXtreme]

I found this for CV-8, shows clearly the portholes plates but no photos really for the Enterprise.

[John W.]

Thanks again Dick, yes I saw that photo in the thread but impossible to find it elsewhere on the web, I wonder where it came from, but I can see that ��Blur�� alright.

About portholes here is a photo of my WIP CV-6, do I need to cover the portholes under the degaussing cables, or they were presents during Santa Cruz ?

Good clean model there.

Note that the openings shown under the overhang are not roller doors like the rest of the doors on the hangar deck side bulkheads. They are air inlets for the boilers. I have never seen a photo where they are "closed". Easily seen on photos of HORNET launching Doolittle Raid: fairly heavy seas and all the visible roller doors are shut except those three pairs. More discussion on this in CASF HORNET CV-8 thread. They may have had mesh screen doors to keep sailors and seagulls out when steaming at flank. Careful looking at MD Silver Plans (HORNET plans I have do anyway) shows more details including location of air inlets for boilers inside those doors. Plans for CV8 are slightly altered CV5 plans so I assume CV5 and CV6 are same config as CV8.

Some annotation on original Blueprints may be hard to see so I have highlighted in colored pen what annotation says.

Keep up good work.

[Mgunns]

Regarding Portholes on the Midway era CV-6. I know that a lot of the portholes below the hangar deck were welded over with plates, however, in the images attached I can see that on the starboard bow area, the overhang below the Island Structure, and the portholes below the hangar deck seem to be recessed with a cover in the recess with an "X" on them. I suspect that they were able to open these from the inside of the ship during non general quarters or darken ship conditions. The Trumpeter 1/200 Enterprise hull, which in effect is actually labeled as the 1/200 Hornet, has modeled the portholes as recessed. Sadly, the uppermost portholes on the focsl are molded elliptical, due to the molding process. Attached is a crop taken of the island structure after the 1943 Refit": on the back of the "Yorktown Class Carriers" by Steve Wipers "Warship Pictorial" Series, that shows the location of the portholes on the lower forward Island Structure. I suspect that these portholes were there as constructed. Note that the porthole covers are open and adjustable; but have no view slits. The KA/MK.I PE set provides these portholes, but with a view slit and what appears to be the inside of the recessed portholes with the "X" on them; at least that is my impression as the instructions don't identify them nor do they show any location. To me, the modeler has several options, 1. leave them as is, 2. drill them out and place the "Inside" portion of the porthole, drill out the elliptical portholes and place place the inside portion with the "X" on these only. The PONTOS PE Set provides the modeler with the porthole outline with ringols. Also, KA/MK.I provides a porthole with attached porthole cover with a view slit, that can be displayed in the open position, as shown in the image of the island structure after the 1943 upgrade. My plan is to use the ones with the view slit on the superstructure as it adds interest to the Island, leave the majority of the portholes as is, drill out the elliptical portholes on the forward part of the hull and place the covers with the "X" behind them. Modelers dilemma: thoughts?

[Dick J]

Your first two photos were taken prior to Midway. After that battle, the row of ports just below the degausing cable appear to have been covered by steel disks, just as was done on Hornet at the same time. After 1943, many of these were covered by the blisters. Ports in the island were not subjected to the same water tight treatment.

[BilltheXtreme]

Thanks again Dick, yes I saw that photo in the thread but impossible to find it elsewhere on the web, I wonder where it came from, but I can see that ��Blur�� alright.

About portholes here is a photo of my WIP CV-6, do I need to cover the portholes under the degaussing cables, or they were presents during Santa Cruz ?

Good clean model there.

Note that the openings shown under the overhang are not roller doors like the rest of the doors on the hangar deck side bulkheads. They are air inlets for the boilers. I have never seen a photo where they are "closed". Easily seen on photos of HORNET launching Doolittle Raid: fairly heavy seas and all the visible roller doors are shut except those three pairs. More discussion on this in CASF HORNET CV-8 thread. They may have had mesh screen doors to keep sailors and seagulls out when steaming at flank. Careful looking at MD Silver Plans (HORNET plans I have do anyway) shows more details including location of air inlets for boilers inside those doors. Plans for CV8 are slightly altered CV5 plans so I assume CV5 and CV6 are same config as CV8.

CV8 air intakes40002.jpg

CV8 air intakes40003.jpg

Some annotation on original Blueprints may be hard to see so I have highlighted in colored pen what annotation says.

Keep up good work.

Thanks John, after carefully check photos, you are right, always open, I'll change that.

[Mgunns]

Your first two photos were taken prior to Midway. After that battle, the row of ports just below the degausing cable appear to have been covered by steel disks, just as was done on Hornet at the same time. After 1943, many of these were covered by the blisters. Ports in the island were not subjected to the same water tight treatment.

Thanks for that information Dick: That clears up a lot of questions as to the fit prior to and during Midway. Most helpful.

[cfrobel]

Those "sponsons" were actually guards for the catapults, the ends of which overhung the hangar deck edges. They were similar in concept to the prop guards, but were obviously more robust. Yorktown was lost with hers in place. Immediately following Midway, Enterprise and Hornet had the hangar cats removed as topweight compensation for all of the radar and AA improvements, and the guards were removed at that time. No "sponsons" for either Eastern Solomons or Santa Cruz.

Dick thank you for this information. I am still in the process of sanding and filling in the hull plating on my 1/350 Enterprise and would not have thought to remove these guards, is there any photographic evidence of these being gone between Midway and Santa Cruz?

[BilltheXtreme]

Those "sponsons" were actually guards for the catapults, the ends of which overhung the hangar deck edges. They were similar in concept to the prop guards, but were obviously more robust. Yorktown was lost with hers in place. Immediately following Midway, Enterprise and Hornet had the hangar cats removed as topweight compensation for all of the radar and AA improvements, and the guards were removed at that time. No "sponsons" for either Eastern Solomons or Santa Cruz.

Dick thank you for this information. I am still in the process of sanding and filling in the hull plating on my 1/350 Enterprise and would not have thought to remove these guards, is there any photographic evidence of these being gone between Midway and Santa Cruz?

You have some good photos page 47 of CV-6 at Noumea without them.

[cfrobel]

Thank you, I believe I found these photos on Navsource dated 10 November 1942, it's clear they are gone.

One additional question I have is in regards to the removal of the deck catapults, was just the below deck hardware removed and the tracks remained on the decks? From pictures the tracks seem to still be there in all photos until the end of the war.

[Dick J]

The actual catapult overhung the deck edge significantly, as seen in this photo of Yorktown.
https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020544.jpg
That overhang is why the guard was found to be necessary. The catapults were totally removed, as demonstrated in the following photo of Enterprise, damaged and returning from Eastern Solomons. The angle of this photo would highlight the catapult if it were present.
https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/0206bf.jpg
The removed catapults were shipped back to the mainland for reuse in CVE's.

[Dick J]

In this pre-war photo, taken at about the same angle, the catapult guard is pretty prominent. https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/020617.jpg Had the cat still been present at that time, it would have shown in the post Eastern Solomons photo. From Friedman's US Aircraft Carriers book, in a discussion of the hangar cats on page 93: "Pearl Harbor Navy Yard reported the removal of catapults from the Enterprise and Hornet on 26 June 1942."

[cfrobel]

that 2nd photo is a bad choice because of the angle of it obscures the hanger catapult tho something appears to be partially appearing in that area. was that catapult removed before the battle of Eastern Solomons or after? does documentation state when that catapult was removed?

Per the Naval History and Heritage Command webpage:

"Adm. King authorized the removal of the athwartships hangar deck catapults from Enterprise, Hornet (CV-8), Wasp (CV-7), and Yorktown, on 17 February."

and

"Following the battle (Midway), Enterprise completed a short availability at Pearl Harbor, during which workers installed four quadruple 40 millimeter mounts in place of four 1.1-inch batteries, a 1.1-inch anti-aircraft mount at the extreme bow on the forecastle deck and forward fire control radar, and removed the forward auxiliary elevator, the two catapults on the main deck, and the remaining .50 cal. machine guns."

What is interesting regarding the deck catapults is later in the same document it mentions in 4/45 the following incident:

"A fire ignited a Hellcat on the starboard catapult and spread to the deck. Since shock failure of the forward diesel fire pump hampered firefighting -- men opened cross-connection valves and led hoses from the other plugs -- but the burning fighter was catapulted from the ship."

[Dick J]

Actually, the sequence of updates was a bit more complicated than that NHHC blurb would indicate. The first round of mods was done at Pearl immediately following Midway. It included removal of the hangar cat, cutting the aft 20MM into the round down, replacing the 20MM on the bow bandstand with a quad 1.1 mount and adding MK-4 radar to the forward MK-33 director. The last mod required moving the sky lookout positions above the pilothouse forward to clear the traverse of the MK-4 antenna. That can be seen in the following linked NHHC photo, along with the retention of the original 1.1's through Eastern Solomons.
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/hi ... cv-6-.html (Scroll down once the link opens.)
The original 4 quad 1.1's were replaced by quad 40MM during her post Eastern Solomons repair, at which time MK-4 was added to the after MK-33 director, the SC secondary air search radar was added, and more 20MM guns added. The wrap-around flag bridge was removed at the same time. The bow 1.1 was retained until her big late 1943 refit.

[BilltheXtreme]

that 2nd photo is a bad choice because of the angle of it obscures the hanger catapult tho something appears to be partially appearing in that area. was that catapult removed before the battle of Eastern Solomons or after? does documentation state when that catapult was removed?

Per the Naval History and Heritage Command webpage:

"Adm. King authorized the removal of the athwartships hangar deck catapults from Enterprise, Hornet (CV-8), Wasp (CV-7), and Yorktown, on 17 February."

and

"Following the battle (Midway), Enterprise completed a short availability at Pearl Harbor, during which workers installed four quadruple 40 millimeter mounts in place of four 1.1-inch batteries, a 1.1-inch anti-aircraft mount at the extreme bow on the forecastle deck and forward fire control radar, and removed the forward auxiliary elevator, the two catapults on the main deck, and the remaining .50 cal. machine guns."

What is interesting regarding the deck catapults is later in the same document it mentions in 4/45 the following incident:

"A fire ignited a Hellcat on the starboard catapult and spread to the deck. Since shock failure of the forward diesel fire pump hampered firefighting -- men opened cross-connection valves and led hoses from the other plugs -- but the burning fighter was catapulted from the ship."

What about the two .50 at the extremity of flight deck above the forecastle ? I saw something on the thread like they were removed in 1943.

[maxs75]

"Following the battle (Midway), Enterprise completed a short availability at Pearl Harbor, during which workers installed four quadruple 40 millimeter mounts in place of four 1.1-inch batteries, a 1.1-inch anti-aircraft mount at the extreme bow on the forecastle deck and forward fire control radar, and removed the forward auxiliary elevator, the two catapults on the main deck, and the remaining .50 cal. machine guns."

What is interesting regarding the deck catapults is later in the same document it mentions in 4/45 the following incident:

"A fire ignited a Hellcat on the starboard catapult and spread to the deck. Since shock failure of the forward diesel fire pump hampered firefighting -- men opened cross-connection valves and led hoses from the other plugs -- but the burning fighter was catapulted from the ship."

If you mean that Enterprise still had catapult installed, yes, she retained the flight deck catapults (and were upgraded tu more powerful type in 1943 refit) during the entire war. Only the hangar deck one was removed (the same happened to the Essex class carriers that had it installed while building).

[Blue Devil]

I'm still (slowly) working on the I Love Kit Big E and have secured some Plastruct .015 diameter rod to build out the degaussing cables. I've been looking at a lot of pics online and in my various reference books but there are areas along both sides of the ship that just aren't clear. So I had a look at the instructions from the 1/200 Pontos upgrade set as they include some very nice installation drawings. From those it looks like there are two breaks in the continuity of the cables along each side. I'd only seen the one break amidships, but they show a smaller one under the boat crane on each side. Is that correct? More generally, do you all think I'm safe following their instructions?

Thanks!

Michael

[Dick J]

Like the catapult guards further forward, the deck extensions projecting out from the bases of the boat cranes were supported by brackets that angled from the outer edges back toward the hull sides. In both cases the degausing cables were gathered into a tight bundle and threaded between the under side of the deck extension/catapult guard and where the support brackets joined the hull sides. They weren't terminated or directed back into the hull, just simply gathered up into bundles.

[Iceman 29]

It's a pity that this operation to save this mythical ship didn't succeed after its exceptional fate during WW2.

It was well worth it!

On this day in 1958, the USS Enterprise (CV-6) made her last voyage from the Brooklyn Navy Yard to the scrapyard in New Jersey.

Admiral William Halsey led a campaign to preserve the Big E as a museum, but the campaign failed to raise enough funds to save the aircraft carrier.

[MartinJQuinn]

All that's left...right here in NJ