The Ship Model Forum

I pulled out my Ray Bean Midway/Franklin/Coral Sea CD (Vol. 7). Several photos from the late 50s and early 60s, but none that show much in the way of what you are looking for.

Dave

Apparently the Midway class in her last configurations had some sort of weather antennas / radars one on each side near the aft elevators (no.2 and 3) with the designation AS-3063 / AN/SMQ-10 SROE Antennae. I've only seen a few photos, no drawings or sketches. Does anybody know more about these?

It's that weird tilting antenna on the right side of this photo:

and on the left side here:

Hi guys ! With my research, I concluded that Midway was painted in MS 21 or a variation paint the day of launching. Any ideas on the subject ? Thanks !https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/024129.jpg

Greetings,

I think that you are correct.

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cv.htm


Looking forward to the 1/350 Midway's about to be released!

Mark

I think the question is around the exact color paint used in the Measure 21 scheme as launched. All conventional knowledge here is that ships in the stateside yards were painting into navy grey (and not 5-N navy blue with purple tint) by early to mid 1945. We would assume then that Midway would be launched in 1946 with navy grey paint (in Measure 21 overall scheme). Is this correct -- if so, is there any textual documentation that can support it?

There was a discussion on the Shipbucket board about this and it was not clear if navy grey was used vs. navy blue

Midway was launched in March, 1945 and commissioned that September.

This color photo (not colorized) of her on the day of her launch may be some help determine her color as built. Is that Navy Gray 5-N or Navy Blue 5-N?
https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/024129.jpg

Whether gray or blue, she is very dark on this day and remained dark when photographed in the Hudson River off New York City a month later during Navy Day celebrations. Note her name painted in large, white letters on her side, contrasting with her hull paint.
https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/0241bi.jpg
https://navsource.org/archives/01/063/016334v.jpg

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So unless some people have other sources, my point of view is that when launched, the Midway and FDR were paint Navy blue (5-N). The guys at the museum say the same thing.

There is an original color photo of FDR on her commissioning day on NavSource: https://www.navsource.org/archives/02/024207.jpg

Question is, what is the color? Navy Blue? Navy Gray? Ocean Blue? Ocean Gray?

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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With the nearby presence of blue on the flags and bunting to compare against in that christening day photo in March 1945, the hull color looks to my eyes to be in the neutral gray range rather than possessing a blue tint. March may be on the early end of the availability of Navy Gray, but if it were my model I'd go with Navy Gray for a christening day Midway.

I can't imagine a primary stateside shipyard would not have long-since burned through their remaining stockpile of the blue tones and be well into common use of the new neutrals for ships getting their final coats for commissioning in September and October 1945, so for Midway's as-commissioned Measure 21 and FDR's as-commissioned Measure 22, I'd definitely finish my models with the neutrals.

- Sean F.

I would caution everyone trying to judge color from any photograph of this, or pretty much any age, not to let your mind's perceptions color your impressions!

The problem is that the yellow dyes in prints and slides were the first ones to fade with time, pretty much regardless of storing conditions. You might think you can apply yellow filters to the photo to "restore" the original color, but you are only fooling yourself because your yellow filter will effect ALL colors, the entire photograph.

Photographic dyes are on the molecular level, and it's those imperceptible molecules that fade with extreme precision, hence adjacent colors of a gray tint and a blue tint can come to look identicle as the yellow molecules fade away in time. This is especially true when the original colors are not that far apart in the first place, often coming down to mixtures of the same paints depending on the availability of the exact shades in the supply depots scattered widely throughout the country at a time of war.

In the future, with photography becoming digital as opposed to chemical, this will no longer pose a problem since the bits that make up a pixel don't fade. But any historic true PHOTOGRAPHS based on film technology can never be taken at face value.

Plus this part is very clearly a "blue", or at least different from the adjacent "neutral grey" - which is the "actual" paint?:

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Haven't we all learned over the years that color photos must be taken with a grain of salt? Based on everything we know about the availability of the neutral grays, I think it's highly unlikely that Midway or FDR would have commissioned with the earlier purple tinted blues. Just because the museum docents tell you that "Midway was in Measure 21" doesn't mean that the original blues were used. I strongly do not agree that the earlier blue paints would have been used at commissioning. Unless some other evidence can be found I would recommend making your drawing in the later neutral grays

The Trumpeter 1/350 USS Midway, (as built) is soon to land at my doorstep. I am excited to see this kit and to build it, the issue for me is what paint measure was it in prior to its June 1946 alteration? I have "scoured" the net, have the Warship Pictorial #1, (with scant images of the ship during that period) but can't seem to find an image of the entire ship in the measure it wore prior to the major bridge alteration. The painting guide in the kit shows it in a standard Grey with the 41 on the stack shadowed. Does anyone on this forum have any images, or can direct me to where the images reside?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Mark
Master Gunnery Sergeant USMC (Ret.)
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

On the bench:

1/200 USS Enterprise, CV-6

Images of this time are rare and often unclear. All the images I have show her in a dark overall color, so I get the impression that she maintained her MS-21 paint scheme till after overhaul and island expansion completed. The 41 on the stack is not shadowed in any of the images that I can tell, the image of her having the island work done is pretty clear and the shadowing is not present to my eye and the visible area's of the ship are very dark. I have this image showing her overall, lots of shadows but you can see she is overall one dark color.


This image shows no shadowing on Funnel 41


Another image showing the 41 but also showing she is still dark when compared to her navy blue planes


If you want something a little brighter, the FDR looks to have commissioned in MS-22, there has been some debate if they are older purple hues or the newer neutral ones that were coming out at the same time. I am leaning towards the newer tones when compared to the USS Franklin in the background of the full image, but that could be a trick of light that she looks so much darker.

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USS Utah AG-16
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1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist

Thank you for your quick and comprehensive response. It answers my question and, satisfies my EEI, (Essential Elements of Information) very nicely. I will be going with a Navy Blue, based on the color image of it being commissioned, or variation thereof. I have a True Color 5N, which I will use. The deck looks to be a deck blue or a dark gray, so that will be up to me. But; thank you again, very helpful.

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Mark
Master Gunnery Sergeant USMC (Ret.)
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

On the bench:

1/200 USS Enterprise, CV-6

I am sure this will be all over Facebook and other model ship forums; Three D wild Miniatures will be releasing a post 1947 superstructure for converting the Midway to a later configuration and will also be releasing two different airwing sets. See here on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ipmsusa ... 2043812999

Exciting times for the Midway class aircraft carrier enthusiasts. Can't wait to see what's coming up next.

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Mark
Master Gunnery Sergeant USMC (Ret.)
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

On the bench:

1/200 USS Enterprise, CV-6

Greetings,

Here is a link to the 3D-Wild announcement on their site.

https://3d-wild.com/pages/coming-soon


Mark

Back in... November or December, I think it was, somebody posted a link to a 3-D printed late-fit USS Coral Sea by Yestrtoys. Essential for my carrier collection, I bought one right away in 1:700 scale and have been working on her off-and-on ever since. She's finally finished, with the addition of some GMM photoetch and Trumpeter aircraft. Deck stripes are masked and painted, and hull and island numbers are spliced together from a Starfighter Decals USS Kitty Hawk & Constellation sheet. The kit is essentially in her 1989 final fit, but could represent late 70s-early 80s with minimal fuss.
The biggest challenge is that the whole think is printed in one piece - including the completely open hangar - which contains a forest of printing support struts, some of which got so dense as to require a saw blade to clear them out. I did choose to cut off the crane and upper mast and re-attach them later, to keep them from getting broken during the rougher phases of cleanup and construction. Some of those things that show how just because you can print it in one piece doesn't mean you should. But even so, glad to have CV-43 join my fleet.







- Sean F.

Hi Sean,


Looks great! I am working on backdating the Coral Sea to a 1972 fit. Overall, I think that the Yestrtoys Kit is really good. I agree with you on the hanger bay. It takes a bit to clean that up. The mast and upper works need a little love along with the radars but a really great kit to start tinkering with.

Mark

https://yestrtoys.com/products/USS-Coral-Sea-p597879806

Really nice job, Sean. Look at that, something finished.