What-If US battleship early 30s AA gun directors

[France76]

Hello, I am trying to build one the battleships of 1928's schemes, present in the book of Friedman, in particular the 35ooo tons battleship with 9 16/50 in triple turrets all forward as Nelson, and 16 6/53 in twin turrets.
I cannot find good pictures or description of the aa gun directors, on the tripod mast, half way. These directors are located on
round platforms.

This director seems a dark finger pointed to the sky, but it has probably a normal rangefinder as base.
The battleships updated in late 20s and early 30s, with tripods, have this aa director, so i think that i can found some pics.

I hope that someone can suggest me some info. Many thanks

[BB62vet]

What book by Friedman?
What page #?
What 35,000 ton battleship? Name, hull number???

Your information is insufficient to give you an answer.

[FFG-7]

France76, there was no US navy battleships with 9 16/50 in triple turrets all forward as Nelson & with 16 6/53 in twin turrets.
http://www.navsource.net/archives/01/04bbidx.htm

[Fliger747]

What he is referring to is a scheme, one of the proposed ship designs that never got past the discussion phase. perhaps an interesting what if sort of project, there would be little info for a ship that never advanced to an advanced design phase.

[France76]

Sorry, i gave you too scarce info.i am going home and i will provide the necessary update.
Yes, as Flieger 747 says, it is a scheme studied to squeeze a Nelson in 35000 tons, and there were many schemes, and i think that i can complete the model using the accessories of the battleships rebuilt in that time. I will provide info also on Breyer's book.

During those years, there were many 16/50 left by the Lexington class battlecruisers, and it seems a nice attempt to make an american Nelson.

Of course, they were not blueprints detailed, as for Bb49 or Lexington CC1, but it's more than a mere design, because the Bureau made calculations, weights, specifications.

Thanks for your help

[TZoli]

He is talking about one of the designs prepared for the 1st LNT.
Probably one of these:



As for your actual question, I think the Lexingtons carried some weird looking T shaped Heavy AA gun directors on their masts. I've seen photos of models on this forum

[TZoli]

Here on the sides on the platform atop the mast:


upper left one here:


I don't know their name nor Mark number sadly

[France76]

Wow! Yes, you found it!

Friedman US battleships, pages 213-218, and Breyer schlactschiffe 1905-1992 band 2, page 95.
Yes,it's that antiaircraft director! Amazing, many thanks, i am trying to build the battleship using the equipment of that time, for example 6/53 gun turrets are surely those present on Omaha light cruiser. The machine guns are probably 12,7 water cooled typical of the rebuit battleships. The conning tower and tripods are very similar to bb 49, lexington
Many thanks again, great!

[FFG-7]

the 2 with 1 on either side are range finders possible 12ft. the 1 he says looks like a dark finger pointed to the sky is the 5" gun director.

[France76]

Yes, i was a bit confused by the "finger' because usually directors don't have vertical pole or "rod".
As you know, US battleships like Nevada, Arizona, Maryland are shown and built by model makers in their 1941 Pearl Harbour configurations, when they have directors in squared boxes, or in the original shape, when they were commissioned.
So, these antiaircraft directors are not very common in our work.
My purpose is to build the battleship with equipment of 1928- 1934, because they could be commissioned not before 1934.
I think that this strange "Nelson" with tripods can be interesting, even if it was only a mere exercise.
Thanks to all of you.

[FFG-7]

why not build the model of BB-49 USS South Dakota as there is plans of that cancelled class of battleships?
BB-49 Planning & Models http://www.navsource.net/archives/01/49a.htm

[Dick J]

The battleships in question carried the MK-19 director system which had 2 parts. The main director, seen here on Northampton https://www.navsource.net/archives/04/026/0402626.jpg had all of the analog computer elements, while the second part, seen on page 99 of Stern's Lexington Class Carriers book, is listed as an "altimeter", and had a vertical periscope like part with a rangefinder, both range and angle of elevation being needed for an altitude calculation. The system was carried on many of the battleships, the Lexington class carriers and the Pensacola and Northampton class cruisers. By 1941, all but the carriers had combined all of the elements into a single rotating boxy structure as seen on all of the Pearl Harbor battleships atop the bridge structure on either side of the foremast. In the Northampton photo, the altimeters had not yet been installed at the time of the photo, the rounded deck projections just aft of the main director elements being the intended locations. perhaps this is what you are referencing.

[France76]

Well, I like South Dakota, and I see that I can find easily the blueprints. I am planning to build bb 49, Caracciolo and the american Nelson of this topic, in 350, this year.
Yes, I have the Stern' book about the Lexington class, and in fact i now I can see the picture. It's perfect for my model.
The Northampton pic is very interesting, because it's clear and your explanation is very useful, i could not imagine a range finder, computer and director with two structures, one close to the other.
For that time, it is a fine and modern piece of equipment.
Anyway the evolution to the final mark 19, so known for us, was a necessary update of this system.
I am so grateful for your suggestions and comments. It's fantastic sharing our knowledge of naval history and technology.