USN Prewar ('36-41) uniforms?

[JollyRoger61]

Wanting to know uniforms circa mid 41 (prewar), Hawaiian theater, for out-at-sea/underway wear. Looking at BB pics before the attack I'm mostly seeing the dark jumpers, or should I consider white shirts and denim pants? And, would it be a mix of the two for enlisted, or pretty much one-or-the-other?

Am I correct in thinking the blue denim work shirts in the US Navy started with the war in '41/42?

Also presuming khakis for officers?

Have spent two days trying to find answers including a search on this board. Seems like all I find anywhere is wartime, when lots of rules changed....

Thanks in advance!

[JollyRoger61]

Must be at least a guess? I know some folks in here must know...

Fall 1941, Hawaii theater, underway at sea. If I paint the crew in CrackerJack jumpers, I'm sure I'll be told that's wrong. If I paint them in light blue denim shirts with dark denim pants, did that begin after the war began??

I know sometimes they wore white TShirts with white shorts, but wasn't that more in-port at not so much out at sea?

Just that all the prewar pics I've gone through all this week show the CrackerJack jumpers, but is that more formal?

[FFG-7]

the "CrackerJack jumpers" are for formal purposes wereas the denim shirts & pants are work attire as are the white t-shirts & shorts depending on weather conditions as in hot or cold.

[JollyRoger61]

the "CrackerJack jumpers" are for formal purposes wereas the denim shirts & pants are work attire as are the white t-shirts & shorts depending on weather conditions as in hot or cold.

Thank you! So, in the Hawaiian theater, BEFORE the PH attack, would white t-shirts and denim pants be more appropriate while actually out at sea? Or would the white shorts even be while out at sea? Generally of course....

[BB62vet]

JR61,
Here is a photo of some deck apes working over the side on PENSY in 1939 - as you can see there are a variety of uniforms shown - more than likely officers/chiefs wore undress khaki while enlisted are shown in undress blues, denim work shirts & jeans,

Not sure when the denim work uniforms came into service, my 1940 Bluejacket's Manual is unavailable, right now.

Hope this helps!

Edit - You did mention the Hawaiian Theater, so keep in mind that undress WHITES may have been worn there - the photo info doesn't say where/when (such as time of year) it was taken. I would go with the denim work uniforms and/or undress whites.

[JollyRoger61]

Thanks for that!

One more question, since the photo shows a work detail in-port; once at sea, would the enlisted be required to be dressed the same, i.e. all blue shirts & jeans, all white shirts and jeans etc? Apologies for my ignorance, military aircraft are my specialty...

Unrelated, I spent almost 2 decades with the Arizona's survivors; seeing the paint chipping going on in your photo reminds me of survivor Clare Hetrick who sometimes told me about how he hated cleaning up the paint chippings every time he had that assignment, 'til one day he got smart and put down newspaper on the deck first to catch it all

[BB62vet]

JR61,

Re. your question - Speaking in terms of what WAS...not the modern (post 1970's) Navy -

When ship's leave port, the crew "man the rail" - i.e. they are in undress blues/whites depending on season and line the deck edge as a tradition for leaving/entering port. Once underway and at sea the usual work uniform is dungarees & denim shirts. I don't think that that tradition was any different in the 30s/40s/50s (I served in the USN during the 60s). Some watchstanders on duty were req'd to wear undress blues/whites if that duty was assisting admiralty staff or a captain's orderly. Deck force & engineering spaces obviously req'd a work uniform. I think during our 1968-69 cruise the ship's bugler was usually seen in undress uniform when he was on duty. When boats were launched the boat crew might be req'd to wear undress uniforms if it entailed transporting the C.O. or officers to another ship, as this was an official function, not simply ship's maintenance.

As for paint chipping, been there - done that! I guess using a newspaper would be a good way to catch the chips, IF you had one handy!!

All ahead full, make turns for Ramming Speed!!!

[JollyRoger61]

BB62vet, thank you! Now, THAT was definitely helpful, tells me just what I need to know for the rebuild I'm doing. I'm in your debt, sir!

[FFG-7]

what rebuild are you doing?

[JollyRoger61]

FFG-7, rebuilding from 20 yrs ago, the Revell 1/426 Arizona. I give presentations and speeches about the Arizona since I spent years with her last survivors, and this is the model I bring to display when I do (otherwise it's on display in my classroom).

It was my first serious attempt at a ship, being a plane-builder. Used GM & TM detail. After 20 years I decided a month ago to rebuild/improve her. Some of the last survivors actually advised me on certain details.

Ship is now done from the rebuild, but I'm repainting the crew with better knowledge. Only had 33, so I posted in here hoping someone else had leftover PE sailors from building their 426th Arizona....to no avail. Just ordered another $20 fret from Tom's just for the 11 crewmembers but at least that will increase the crew by 33%....

[MartinJQuinn]

Really nice work on an oldie - she looks great. Nice tribute to the men who served on her.

[JollyRoger61]

Really nice work on an oldie - she looks great. Nice tribute to the men who served on her.

Kindest thanks! Made with love (both times). The survivors were amazing gentlemen, all unique, none perfect, all my heroes, although they hated that term for themselves.

[FFG-7]

the model actually scales out as 1/429 as the 1/426 is a typo error from the 1970's. good job of removing the solid rails to be replaced with the pe version & using the correct aircraft instead of the kit's biplanes.
the ship's boats, funnel, aircraft & some other parts 3d printed?

[JollyRoger61]

the model actually scales out as 1/429 as the 1/426 is a typo error from the 1970's. good job of removing the solid rails to be replaced with the pe version & using the correct aircraft instead of the kit's biplanes.
the ship's boats, funnel, aircraft & some other parts 3d printed?

Thanks! Nope, absolutely zero 3D stuff on this, all the structures were built about 20 yrs ago. I scratchbuilt the Kingfishers, funnel details (including the incinerator & piping), and the boat racks plus many boat details. Also the projection booth, all the 5" AA guns (THOSE took time) and plenty of other stuff I've forgotten, much of it under advice from the actual survivors as I mentioned.

[Jeff Sharp]

Maybe this will help.
This is USS St. Louis in Sept. '41. She is conducting anti-aircraft drills in Hawaiian waters.

[JollyRoger61]

Jeff, thanks for those! Exactly what I needed to see for what I'm doing. Much appreciated!

[JollyRoger61]

Hey folks,
Thanks again for the wisdom and insight to help me with the crew as I was doing a complete rebuild on my Revell 429 Zona. Managed to recruit a huge number of additional crew with the help of Richard at Tom'sMW. DEFINITELY not up to the standards of so many of you shipmasters, but this is what I've got....
Again thank you for your patience with what must be (for many of you) such basic questions.