1/144 Kiev by Dave Wooley

[roy allen]

Hi Dave
Thanks for that, the reason i asked was becauce i've built awhile ago a POW at recovery stations picking up a Walrus. And tried to simulate the knuckle produced by the ship to give a calmer area to land on. I had the pleasure to meet a Walrus pilot many years ago and he explained how they did it. Were talking edge of your seat pass the barf bag sheer madness kind of antics. Your pic is the first one ive seen that simulates this knuckle at scale on water.
Many thanks

Roy

[ozpirate]

One word - Beautiful

I look forward to seeing more close up and water shots.

Mick

[Neptune]

Hi Dave, can't let this one slip down!

Have you made any progress?

I'm going to send you some more detail pics of the Osa launchers and the guidance radars.

Regards
Roel

PS: show that progress please!

[Neptune]

TOo cool not to show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47F1S8Fd3qI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ajldA5xwA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXDb-_ba7mI

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Neptune quite some pictures. Especially the rather impromptu take off and landing. Also the pictures give some really valuable information on fittings. Thanks for posting; I�ll make good use of them. Progress is being maintained all be it at a slightly slower pace. But pictures will be posted very shortly as I've been working on "active" stabilizers and how to get them to function. The deck is now firmly in place as are all the bilge keels.
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

As promised the build thus far.
First and as per the photos of the full size ship the hull needed to be flushed with the upper knuckle

The position and shape of each of the 4 separate bilge keels

The preliminary shape of each length of bilge keel was cut from 1.5mm marine ply and notched to take the three locating pins made from 1.5mm dia brass rod

The position of each keel was marked and drilled


Each of the bilge keels set into place

Filler is applied to the upper and lower surfaces to provide the �wedge� profile of each the bilge keels

The position of the stabilizer in neutral. A hole of 1.5mm was drilled into the hull so the outer tube could be set into position.

Stabilizer under servo control

The Bilge keels and stabilizer

Dave Wooley

[ARH]

Very interesting Dave, how are you going to make the stabilizers water tight.

[Dave Wooley]

Very interesting Dave, how are you going to make the stabilizers water tight.

Hi Ron Good question I've thought of a rubber gland were the stabilizer shaft emerges from the tube and back fill the tube with a small amount of light oil as it's a good fit anyway. Having disscussed the subject with others that have used active stabilizers , they apparently work quite well .
Dave Wooley

[Admhawk]

Is there an electronic circuit you will be using to make them active?

[Guest]

This may be a dumb question, what is the purpose of the stabilizers? To stop the rocking motion of turns?

[Andy G]

Is there an electronic circuit you will be using to make them active?

I suppose the easiest way would be to have supplementary servos connected to the rudder output.

...Though a pendulum free to swing transversely across the vessel, pivoted by a rotary potentiometer, whose resistance is measured and converted (by microprocessor) to the right servo output would be kind of fascinating.

Andy

[Dave Wooley]

Is there an electronic circuit you will be using to make them active?

Each stabilizer is linked to a servo . The idea is to have them electronically "mixed" with the rudder. Which can be done on the RC equipment intended to be fitted into Kiev {Multiplex SX }
As for their purpose , The hope is it may help in improving the stability in the turns or just reducing the tendency to roll in not so flat calm conditions. Whether this does in fact happen is open to question. But as they are fitted anyway I think it's worth the effort to find out.
Dave Wooley

[ingura]

Hi Dave - since you already plan to use two servos - why not making the best of it and reduce the roll anyway independent from the rudder?

I would like to direct your attention to this webpage:

http://www.modelluboot.de/

look for "pitchcontrol" or "Lageregler".

Believe me, the stuff works... Saw it built into subs (as anyone can imagine).

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Dave - since you already plan to use two servos - why not making the best of it and reduce the roll anyway independent from the rudder?

I would like to direct your attention to this webpage:

http://www.modelluboot.de/

look for "pitchcontrol" or "Lageregler".

Believe me, the stuff works... Saw it built into subs (as anyone can imagine).

Hi ingura Thanks for the information . I did have a look at this submarine at Dortmund but the more detailed information expands into the area I'm interested in. I know this type of technology has been designed for use with submarines but it may well have an application when combining this with stabilizers for surface ships. The only difference is that the port and starboard planes on submarines operate together, were as stabilizers appear to operate differently for surface ships. However it's worth investigating . Thanks for your comments
Dave Wooley

[Neptune]

Hello Dave,

yes such systems are not called Roll control are they??? Pitching is a different motion, so it has to be countered differently. The active stabilisers would indeed work in opposite direction, one adding the force upwards to one side, the other creating a downward force to the other side.

ON the pictures I sent you you should mainly have a look at the launcher and radars. The radars come from a Kara class, the Osa launcher from a Grisha class. So everything around the equipment isn't of any use to you I'm affraid.

[ingura]

The only difference is that the port and starboard planes on submarines operate together, were as stabilizers appear to operate differently for surface ships. However it's worth investigating . Dave Wooley

I know that you don't control the pitch with the stabilizers. "Pitchcontrol" is only the brandname. I should have explained a little what I meant:

Lets say the "...controller" is mounted so he will recognize every bow up/stern down motion (or reverse). Normally one servo is attached to this controlling a pair of diving plane (bow or stern).

Mounted with a 90� turn to left or right, the controller will notice and react to listing either to port or starboard. Instead of manipulating one servo attached to a pair of planes you attach a Y-Cable with two servos, one for each stabilizer (port & stb.) By attaching the levers in opposite direction you can get a different motion on the stabilizers although the servos react parallel. Is this is not possible for you and the lever arms have to point in the same direction, why not open one servo and change polarity at the motor? The controller will react to listing ordering the servos to do their job and on port, respectivly starboard side you get an opposite reaction of the stabilizers. Thats what I meant.

you may also use a micro gyro in the same configuration, which I did once with my B-109 destroyer. Driving with a flottilla of boats in line ahead will bring you sooner or later into the wake of your comrades and the Destroyers lost course very quick (at least too quick for me to react on the sticks). The gyro solved that problem for me.

[Dave Wooley]

The only difference is that the port and starboard planes on submarines operate together, were as stabilizers appear to operate differently for surface ships. However it's worth investigating . Dave Wooley

I know that you don't control the pitch with the stabilizers. "Pitchcontrol" is only the brandname. I should have explained a little what I meant:

Lets say the "...controller" is mounted so he will recognize every bow up/stern down motion (or reverse). Normally one servo is attached to this controlling a pair of diving plane (bow or stern).

Mounted with a 90� turn to left or right, the controller will notice and react to listing either to port or starboard. Instead of manipulating one servo attached to a pair of planes you attach a Y-Cable with two servos, one for each stabilizer (port & stb.) By attaching the levers in opposite direction you can get a different motion on the stabilizers although the servos react parallel. Is this is not possible for you and the lever arms have to point in the same direction, why not open one servo and change polarity at the motor? The controller will react to listing ordering the servos to do their job and on port, respectivly starboard side you get an opposite reaction of the stabilizers. Thats what I meant.

you may also use a micro gyro in the same configuration, which I did once with my B-109 destroyer. Driving with a flottilla of boats in line ahead will bring you sooner or later into the wake of your comrades and the Destroyers lost course very quick (at least too quick for me to react on the sticks). The gyro solved that problem for me.

I agree . You can easily "reverse" each servo to gain opersite effect. I was thinking in terms of "Roll" thus using the mixer on the R/C as if it were being used in the same way as ailerons on an aircraft wing.?
Dave Wooley

[ingura]

Never heard of someone doing it this way - which does not mean that much.

I'm really interested wether your idea will do it or not. Please share your experience with us.

[Dave Wooley]

Continuing the build the next step was to fix the deck
into place place followed by the walkways on either
beam which are used, by en large to provide space
for the huge number of life raft containers .
This was done using a combination of 1mm ply
with a layer of 10thou styrene bonded to the ply
using waterproof RC modellers glue. The ply was secured to
a strip of 3mmx 2mm ramin pre-positioned into place
during the fitting of the bilge keels.



All that remains now is to seal the timber deck in
preparation for the next task that of the setting in
place the deck edge strips.

Dave Wooley

[ARH]

Hi Dave, A nice up date, your even good left handed and camera in right hand,