Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Rick E Davis · Post by **Rick E Davis** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:34 am

Many of the yard photos that are available (mostly Mare Island NY) showing overhead close-ups of the 14-40mm configuration refits, show canvas covers over the twin 20mm. This would make it difficult to ID which ships had the electronic sight. It maybe that it was standard on all twin 20mm guns?

As for the bicycle ... I guess the Photo-Etch guys need to make an addition to their Destroyer Sets.

Sleepwalker · Post by **Sleepwalker** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:33 am

I'm working now on Fletcher class DD. It is on the base of card model but will be made in styrene. I have some doubts about bow area. In the model there is kind of plate going from waterline down. Was such feature really installed on Fletchers?

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:40 am

Dear Sleepwalker, can you specify the plate you are referring? Any pic of the part?? I think I could help...... Jimmy

Sleepwalker wrote:I'm working now on Fletcher class DD. It is on the base of card model but will be made in styrene. I have some doubts about bow area. In the model there is kind of plate going from waterline down. Was such feature really installed on Fletchers?

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:07 am

Anyone detailing model hulls with these corrugated plates? See plates in the astern!!!

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... nt=cy1.jpg
http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... nt=cy2.jpg

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:00 am

They're not corrugated really; that's just from years of getting pounded by the sea!
I don't know of an easy way to replicate that; some airplane modelers will get a similar effect on their planes by shaving furrows into the surface, hitting it with liquid cement to soften the detail a bit, and sanding it, but those are much larger ripples than what you'd need for a 1/350th ship.

Tony Bunch · Post by **Tony Bunch** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:45 pm

Hi Guys,
I couldn't pass this up!

Here are some of the latest on a much slowed Renshaw project.

That main deck sure looks blue, but it's just the gloss coat and the decals..I swear! Deck Grey 20!

It was still fun assembling this for sharing; even if it was temporary.
I have to say, just taking her out of the box went a long way towards getting her finished...metaphorically speaking!
I'll get back to her sooner or later......and your little Mo too......!
Tony

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:35 pm

I found some photos friday at Seattle NARA that got posted to Navsource today. Look on the pages for USS Killen (DD-593), USS Shields (DD-596), and USS Leutze (DD-481) for commissioning photos.

Post by **ModelMonkey** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:31 pm

Great shots of the heart tubs and propeller guards! Thanks, Tracy!

Tony, your Renshaw is looking sweet.

Sleepwalker · Post by **Sleepwalker** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:29 am

Hello Jimmy,

I have made simplified drawing showing bow section. Such feature is shown in AOTS "USS The Sullivans", but I cannot find any photographic evidence for such "plate".

Regards.

Rick E Davis · Post by **Rick E Davis** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:31 pm

To go along with Tracy's photos of the standard tubs ... here is a pretty nice view of the "D" shaped tub that seems to be a Mare Island/San Francisco Bay "thing" on refitted Fletcher's. The photo is of the Harrison (DD-573), 10 January 1945, at Mare Island NY. One of the nice features you can see are the canvas covers that protected the ready use 40mm clips on the inside of the tub. I use to be confused by seeing canvas drapped over the sides of some tubs and wondered what that was all about. Or why there was a "rim" rail around the edge of the tubs. Then I put two and two together and realized that they would just flip the covers over the to the other side of the tub when they wanted to get to the ammo. Also, you can see that she got her double D/C storage racks in this yard period.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:47 pm

A note on those canvas covers... some of the Essex class documentation I have called them flame guards, but other ships refer to them as sun guards. Whether they were to
A) protect the ammunition against flash fires
B) protect the loaders from having to handle sun-soaked metal
c) protect the ship from ammunition sun-glint

I don't know. Regardless, this is a feature you see more and more as the war progressed. It's simple enough that it could have been manufacutred by ship's force as well, although I have no documentation that suggests it ever was. I do have some Essex records suggesting the canvas was renewed/replaced at overhaul.

Rick E Davis · Post by **Rick E Davis** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:27 pm

Thanks Tracy. I had no idea of why they started to use the covers or "flame guards". I was just baffled for a long time why I could see these canvas "flaps" drapped over the outsides of tubs. Then I noticed that the rails at the top rim of the tubs, that they were tied to, started showing up in photos.

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:58 am

Tracy White wrote:They're not corrugated really; that's just from years of getting pounded by the sea!
I don't know of an easy way to replicate that; some airplane modelers will get a similar effect on their planes by shaving furrows into the surface, hitting it with liquid cement to soften the detail a bit, and sanding it, but those are much larger ripples than what you'd need for a 1/350th ship.

Dear Tracy: thanks for your coments!

Even rised parts of some ships have the "corrugated" plates..........see in the pic of Arnold Isbel.....so I can�t think it is only sea pounding them. I can assign that to heating of soldering processes . Maybe the time the ship pass at sea contribute to emphasize it.What do you think about it?
I�m thinking about developing some technic to reproduce this characteristic, but not to 1/350 but 1/150 and over.This would consist of creating a �grid� of thin metal and covering it with foil, and them applying over the hull, just �pounding� on little squares to create the hollows�. If you can see in the astern of the Fletcher, some �lines� are marked in the hull, and they are certainly some hull lines or reinforcements to the hull, and proceed like a pattern, squared��and I�m sorry for some bad English�my native language is Portuguese�try to understand me!!!

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... touris.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... nt=f48.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... Brasil.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... 104306.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... ent=13.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... ent=12.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... aclass.jpg

p.s. These images are helpful for those who want to �corrugate� the hull of your �Fletchers� models��some hulls seems so �new� and not beatten by sea or solderings contractions of steel plates�..

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:47 am

Sleepwalker wrote:Hello Jimmy,

I have made simplified drawing showing bow section. Such feature is shown in AOTS "USS The Sullivans", but I cannot find any photographic evidence for such "plate".

Regards.

Hello Sleepwalker:

I think that what you are being confused with is the drawing of the Base Line. That plate doesn�t exists!!! I put some images for your understanding, and posted 2 pics: the fisrt with what you see in the AOTS page and the second with the Base Line erased. The Base Line was drawn to show that the keel will have some deflection. The second pic is that what you have to build, and cut if your kit brings it wrongly. See some other pics of a model of Fletcher class, published by Fine Art Models�.you can see there the real shape for the bow!

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... tcher0.jpg

You have it in the AOTS sheet:

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... tcher0.jpg

For some images in close for the real hull of Fletchers class, enjoy the pics extracted from the Fine Art Models site:

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... tcher2.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... tcher1.jpg

http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb24 ... etcher.jpg

Any other doubts I can help, drop me more lines! My pleasure to help! Jimmy

Tony Bunch · Post by **Tony Bunch** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:19 am

Hi Guys,
Jimmy,
Go for it! It is not often that someone tries to build a ship model to include the skin of the hull's latent condition. For that matter, it's not often a modeler tries to copy all of the external hull detail sans the dimpling of the ships' hull skin.
Dudes,
If Dave M from Small World Models will let me photograph his pre-production 1/96 Sumner hull......you've got to see this! Freakin' work of art!
On a lighter side.......
"They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into..."..."..I say let em' crash.."!
Tony

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:50 am

Tony Bunch wrote:Hi Guys,
Jimmy,
Go for it! It is not often that someone tries to build a ship model to include the skin of the hull's latent condition. For that matter, it's not often a modeler tries to copy all of the external hull detail sans the dimpling of the ships' hull skin.
Dudes,
If Dave M from Small World Models will let me photograph his pre-production 1/96 Sumner hull......you've got to see this! Freakin' work of art!
On a lighter side.......
"They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into..."..."..I say let em' crash.."!
Tony

Dear Tony: that is my attempt to make the model building more complex, and to try also to make members here to THINK about more details in this art. When I see what I call "corrugated" in the hull of ships I stay amazed, and a little sad when not in the models....... as Tracy White said, it's not useful for a 1/350th, but I think would be great for bigger ones....... These details even make me think about Ron Horabin, with his wondeful models in big dimensions........ And I'd like to see modelers trying to develop some technic to make this "corrugated! characteristic, as I told some post above. Have been seeing your models ( you make me learn a lot!! ), you are very interested and acting in building, very skilled, and so I congratulate your nice participation in the forum. I would like to make more technical comments, but I have some difficult in English, but I try to make myself clear. My nice regards to all!!!

Jimmy Conway

Sleepwalker · Post by **Sleepwalker** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:14 pm

Hello Jimmy,

I have no AOTS just in front of me, but I remember that such "plate" was present at general plan - just in the beginning of AOTS drawings section. I'll check it again. Anyway it seems that there is a mistake, copied also to my model.
Regards.

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:07 am

Sleepwalker wrote:Hello Jimmy,

I have no AOTS just in front of me, but I remember that such "plate" was present at general plan - just in the beginning of AOTS drawings section. I'll check it again. Anyway it seems that there is a mistake, copied also to my model.
Regards.

Hello SleepWalker, yes, such plate is a mistake. Did you see the photos I posted? Regards............. Jimmy

Sleepwalker · Post by **Sleepwalker** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:19 pm

Yes, I have seen them - they are very useful, especcialy regarding hull plating. Now I'm waiting for my 1 mm styrene to start the work

Jimmy Conway · Post by **Jimmy Conway** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:39 am

Tony Bunch wrote:Hi Guys,
Jimmy,
Go for it! It is not often that someone tries to build a ship model to include the skin of the hull's latent condition. For that matter, it's not often a modeler tries to copy all of the external hull detail sans the dimpling of the ships' hull skin.
Dudes,
If Dave M from Small World Models will let me photograph his pre-production 1/96 Sumner hull......you've got to see this! Freakin' work of art!
On a lighter side.......
"They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into..."..."..I say let em' crash.."!
Tony

Tony, please, can you get those pics? I sent you some PM....see there! And I made some search for the SWM and no enough information about that model....... or I have made some wrong search..... Nice regards: Jimmy

p.s. these pics should be included in the topic "Sumner-Gearing"

The Ship Model Forum

Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

Plate

corrugated

here's a bike.

corrugate

plate

Corrugated