Calling all Polish Navy fans!

urtch · Post by **urtch** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:37 pm

I've been building a lot of Polish ships lately. Mirage's 1/400 Sep, Grom (1940), Blyskawica (1965), and I just got Wicher (1931). I've seen a Puck harbor set that Mirage also makes at one of my local hobby shops. Has anyone seen or built it? Is it any good?

urtch · Post by **urtch** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:25 am

I got that Puck harbor set, and it's pretty neat! It comes with ORP Kaszub and Mazur in their 1925 configuration, the tug ORP Nurek, a Lublin XIII seaplane, a very nice vacuum-formed base, a dock crane and a barracks building. The only downside is that my example didn't come with the decals for the torpedo boats. I don't know it that's typical, but it looks like I'll be ordering the 1925 ORP Kaszub kit just to get the decals (I'll do some minor converting on it and use some spare decals from my V-108 kit on it), unless someone has some spares they're willing to part with. I'm also painting my ORP Grom (1940 version) and almost finished building my ORP Blyskawica (1965 version), so hopefully I'll have some pictures to share of those soon.

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm planning on doing a diorama of a Polish harbour in the late 30's, 1:700 scale, to include Grom, Orzel, Wilk, Jaskolka, Kujawiak. Still in the planning stage but hope to make it something a little different.

Look forward to seeing your photos soon.

Mike

masch3 · Post by **masch3** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:20 pm

Does anyone know what colour the deck of ORP Burza was in her 1944 fit?

I mean the Blue/White scheme that she wore before becoming a school ship in 1944.

TIA

/Magnus

urtch · Post by **urtch** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:36 pm

As a disclaimer, I could be entirely wrong, but I'd guess it was still wood. The kit I have of the post-war Blyskawica has it with a wood deck, so I'd guess they weren't painted over during WWII.

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:32 am

I'm sure the decks on these ships were steel, Wicher and Burza were slight modifications of the French built Bourrasque class. In the case of the Burza scheme I would think the decks were dark grey, as the pattern is a similar one to the RN Western Approaches scheme.

Blyskawica was the sister ship of Grom, so a different class, I think in any case that the kit is in error and decks on these ships should also be steel.

Mike

masch3 · Post by **masch3** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:13 am

John @ WEM answered the question on Steelnavy.

His suggestion is B55 and white with the deck in B30.

Just my luck; I painted the ship in white and B30 (including the decks). Well, going back, redo...

urtch · Post by **urtch** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:59 am

mike mccabe wrote:I'm sure the decks on these ships were steel, Wicher and Burza were slight modifications of the French built Bourrasque class. In the case of the Burza scheme I would think the decks were dark grey, as the pattern is a similar one to the RN Western Approaches scheme.

Blyskawica was the sister ship of Grom, so a different class, I think in any case that the kit is in error and decks on these ships should also be steel.

Mike

Interesting... I've got a kit of the 1930s fit Wicher/Burza, and the instructions call for a wood color deck. Anybody have any suggestions what it really should be? Or for that matter, what the proper deck colors for Grom in 1940 or Blyskawica in her '50-'60s fit?

masch3 · Post by **masch3** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:58 am

From the pictures in Kontrtorpedowce Wicher/Burza, part 1, from AJ Press, it is clear that these two ships had steel main decks.

Also, the plans that come with this volume, show no signs of any wooden decks.

/Magnus

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:30 pm

I have copyrighted photos of both Grom and Blyskawica being launched and fitting-out at J Samuel White's yard at Cowes, Isle of Wight in 1937/38.

They appear not to show any wood on their decks, all are steel, and this is infitting with destroyers built at this same time in British yards.
You really don't get wooden decks on a destroyer, regardless if its a small or a large destroyer.

Wooden decks may have been added post-war though if the Poles so wished.

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:07 pm

Magnus
I was thinking about buying one of the AJ press books on Grom for a pre war fit, as a long shot I don't suppose you have a copy of it, if so would that be the best one to get? I haven't been able to find anything out about the books but I am thinking that the second one covers the later period of Blyskawica at least.

Also does anyone know a good source of information on Gryf?

Mike

masch3 · Post by **masch3** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:53 pm

I have the three books on the Polish destroyers that have appeared so far (I got them from Jadar Hobby in Poland), that is Grom/Blyskawica part 1 and 2, and Wicher/Burza part 1.

They are in A4 format, soft bound and they have plenty of plans added on A2/A1 sheets that are loose and printed in colour.

They contain a HUGE amount of pictures, in fact so many that the first two parts on Grom/Blyskawica only go as far as late 1940/1941!

The book on Wicher/Burza covers the time until 1938.

I guess it has been so quiet about these books because they do not cover the war years.

Personally I think that they are formidable books on this subject and I can't wait for the next parts to come out. But Mike; for a late war ship, you will have to wait.

/Magnus

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:59 pm

Magnus
Great, thanks for your full answer! I want to do Grom just before the war so the first part sounds just the job. Unfortunately I did my Wicher without much in the way of references - http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

I picked up the HP ORP Gryf kit last week, it could also do with some filling in of the gaps but fortunately as sometimes with HP kits the drawings that come with it are good.

Mike

Avery Boyer · Post by **Avery Boyer** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:03 pm

I'll join in here. What were the differences between Grom and B?yskawica? I have an old (1984?) card model of B?yskawica, I think the company is Maly-Modelraz (sp?). I know the kit was reissued in 1997. Beyond that, I know nothing about it. I don't actually have the kit, it's on my computer, I found it online (Yes, the site was russian, and yes, the circumstances are suspicious) and don;t have all the files. If anyone knows anything more about it, please let me know. Thanks.

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:25 pm

Avery,
It depends on the time period of the kit. Grom and Blyskawica (anyone know how to pronounce this?) were sister ships but Grom was lost in 1940. Blyskawica went on the serve alongside the Royal Navy and survived the war to help form the post war Polish Navy. I haven't looked much further than this but she was a museum ship after a long period of service. So basically, the two ships were very similar until Grom was sunk, if the Blyskawica is after 1940 then they will of course be different.

Mike

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:57 pm

I've been told to pronouce it Bliss ka wika.

I was shown Grom & Blyskawica's 'as fitted' builders plans last year.
They are housed at Newport archives on the Isle of White.
The lady there told me many Polish gentlemen, over the years, had visited there to obtain photocopies.
I assume that was some of the archive material they used to produce the modellers books.
I would bet Newport's copying charges would be very low in comparison to other British archives.

Here are some Polish destroyer photos I can share with you, I hope they are helpful:

Burza at Stockholm 1932

Burza at the Spithead Naval Review May 1937

This might be Grom? not sure as see seems to normally have the letter G painted on her bows and I could not find anywhere that gave the dates when they had certain pennant numbers

Burza wartime note: Radar on mast, X mounting landed and HF/DF fitted aft

Blyskawica unknown date or location

masch3 · Post by **masch3** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:04 am

Laurence:
Blyskawica is actually pronounced (for English) as Bwe-SKA-vi-tza.

The l is one of these weird polish letters that just mean something different than they read in the normal latin alphabet without the small dash in the middle of the letter.

Mike:
Very nice Grom! I did the Burza in her 1944 fit from Mirage Hobby, also without any references, and I botched the paint job (overall B30 with white camouflage instead of vertical areas B55 with white and decks B30) so now I am trying to decide whether to give the kit another go or to try the Niko kit. You must admit, though, that the Polish destroyers look very good full hull.

I have the ORP Dragon and ORP Conrad and some destroyers from HP and Niko, and I must say that Niko are by far the best. Ordering them directly from Poland makes them as cheap as HP kits (or as expensive), while you get a lot more value for the money...

BTW, I am doing the ORP Conrad for the Cruiser Group Build here on Modelwarships.

/Magnus

Laurence Batchelor · Post by **Laurence Batchelor** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:46 am

masch3 wrote:Laurence:
Blyskawica is actually pronounced (for English) as Bwe-SKA-vi-tza.

Magnus can I get away with calling her the Polish Lightning?

Edward Pinniger · Post by **Edward Pinniger** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:59 am

I'll be keeping a close watch on this thread as I've just started Mirage's Grom (1940 fit) - I also have the 1944 Burza and ORP Mazur + Kaszub (ex-WW1 German TBDs) kits in the stash (all I'm missing is the submarine ORP Orzel)
I don't know a great deal about Polish ships, although I've been interested in them for a while (scratchbuilt a 1/200 minesweeper last year) so I probably can't contribute too much in the way of information and photos.
However, here's a link to a Polish site with some information and basic colour profiles/plans of most of the ships.

A few questions I have:
- What photo-etched hatches/doors would be the closest match to those used by the Polish Navy: Kriegsmarine, USN or IJN pattern?
- Was an anti-slip covering (e.g linoleum, Corticene) used on the upper decks of Polish destroyers?
- What exactly does ORP (Polish navy prefix, equivalent to HMS, USS etc.) stand for? I assume O is Okret (ship) and P is Polska, not sure about the R though.

masch3 wrote:Blyskawica is actually pronounced (for English) as Bwe-SKA-vi-tza.

The l is one of these weird polish letters that just mean something different than they read in the normal latin alphabet without the small dash in the middle of the letter.

How would "Piłsudski" (pre-war Polish liner, available as a 1/500 kit from Mirage) be pronounced then?

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:11 pm

Magnus,
Thanks for the correct pronunciation.

Niko kits are good and as you say direct from Poland very reasonable.

I'm very fond of HP, though you won't get etched parts, the later castings in particular are very good and you simply won't get the kits they make from any other company.

Full hull, waterline, just a matter of taste, Polish destroyers look good in any format. By the way, forgot to link to my ORP Garland which is also in the gallery, another very good kit, I would very highly recommend that one.

EP
I'm building in 1:700 so plan to use the USN doors with the porthole, though in this scale anything like that will do. In 1:400 the difference is a bit more obvious.

I built my Wicher with linoleum covering on the bridge and around the gun mounts, mainly based on information I picked up off a build on one of the card modelling sites. Not ideal I know but as I said I was short on references.
ORP, just google it, it will come up on Wikipedia.

Mike

The Ship Model Forum

Calling all Polish Navy fans!

Calling all Polish Navy fans!

Deck colours - ORP Burza 1944

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Pronounciation

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Re: Pronounciation