Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[Rick E Davis]

Actually Sleepwalker, that isn't exactly the way it happened on which ships got the "straight bulwark" vs the "curved bulwark". What yard a given ship was built at or modified by determined which type of bulwark they got. It is true that a good number of round bridge ships got the straight bulwark (plan E). But, the reason has more to do with where they were updated to the ten 40-mm standard. A good number of the round bridge ships were built to the four 40-mm standard configuration and had the curved bulwark (either plan B or C) and were updated starting in mid-1943 to the ten 40-mm standard with the amidships twin 40-mm mounts being added. Many were updated at Mare Island NY or Hunters Point NY and they seemed to like the plan E design. But there were several round bridge units that retained the plan D design (DD-500, 501, 502 and 509 are examples). And a large number of the square bridge Fletchers were built with the plan D. But again, some builders completed the ships that they built to plan E (including all ships from DD-584 to 597) ... Boston NY and Puget Sound NY being good examples ... both round and square bridge units. Some ships had the curved and then were modified to the straight bulwark (DD-545 Bradford is the best example I know and she had three differnent tub shapes for her amidships twin 40-mm mounts as well). I have tried to catalog every ship as to differences in splinter bulwark (tub) shapes for the 40-mm and 20-mm mounts and kind of gave up before I got through all of them. I kept running into ships that were changed at some point, some ships were not well covered in photos, and it got to be confusing. All in all, I would guess that about 2 out of 3 Fletchers had the curved, plan D, bulwark.

[pops]

Wish to say hi to fellow Fletcher fans from a new one in Chambersburg, PA.

I would like to talk to any that might be from the general area.

[MartinJQuinn]

Some progress pictures of my 1/350 Tamiya Fletcher...I've finally got around to doing the PE railings. I'm using a combination of the Eduard set and the Tamiya-specific railings from the GMM set.





The twin 40mm guns are the L'Arsenal gems.


Based on a few pictures I've seen, the Fletcher may have been in Ms18 in November 1942, so that's what I've elected to paint her in.

The rest of the main deck railings have to be added, then the hull numbers, rigging, along with the usual touch up work.

[Rick E Davis]

Martin,

The Fletcher is looking good. Since the earlier, much earlier, discussions about when the Fletcher went from whatever measure to Ms-21, I found a firmly dated photo of the Fletcher on 1 February 1943 (at the time the DeHaven was lost) looking at her port side and she was fully in Ms-21 by then. The photos I have posted are cropped from a much bigger and more distant photo. The starboard side photo of the Fletcher taken in March 1943 showing the bulwark in a "lighter" shade seems to be due more likely to some touch-up primer than showing the remains of Ms-18. This doesn't mean that the Fletcher wasn't painted in Ms-18 ... just that it is a question mark. I want to look in Fletcher's War Diary and BuShips records and see if any mention of her being painted is there. The camo schemes are not a priority item in the very few records I have looked at on other Fletchers and don't have high hopes.

[MartinJQuinn]

Rick,

Thanks for breaking my heart!! Just kidding. That same picture is in the huge "Destroyer Operations of WW2" book as well...I found it after I had painted the ship (which was originally going to be Ms12 mod).

Anyway, here is an update as of tonight:


Fletcher just needs to be rigged and then flat coated, and she is done. Per Rick's earlier note, I managed to gently pry the PE K-gun racks off and put the kit parts back on without making too much of a mess.

And here is the Trumpy Sullivans, being built as Gatling (DD-671) as a surprise for my Uncle, with her ugly a$$ neutral gray paint:


She just needs her AA armament put on, then railings. The kits is basically OOB, with weapons upgrades: The 5 inchers are from Corsair Armada (w/brass barrels from L'Arsenal), the Mk37 director and the 40mm quads are from L'Arsenal, while the 40mm twins are from YMW. Haven't decided what to do about the 20mm guns.

[Rick E Davis]

Martin,

Your Fletcher and Gatling are looking good. Based on what I have seen in photos during that Fall 1942 period, you have maybe a 50-50 chance of being right with the Ms-18 scheme on the Fletcher. From the DATED photos I have seen, the Fletchers were being painted either Ms-22 or Ms-18 AFTER Ms-12R. I really hope a photo of her and the other early Fletcher's that went to the South Pacific in late 1942 turn up somewhere to answer the question of how they were painted. Maybe one of the capital ships they escorted took photos?

I know that it can not be used as an accurate "comparision", but seeing the difference in contrast between the "purple" paints and the "neutral" gray paints is striking.

[JD2870]

I am sorry to ask a question that has probably been answered many times over; but aside from the obvious differences in the kits themselves, can I use a detail set meant for Tamiya�s 1/350 Fletcher on the Sullivans, or would I be relegating most of the set to my spares box? Thanks.

[ArizonaBB39]

If you get the Gold Medal Models photo etch set it comes with parts specific to both kits, so you would have some extras left over. I don't know about the other manufaturer's detail kits though.

[Rick E Davis]

There should be some differences in the photoetch details, like railing, between the Tamiya and Trumpeter kits because they represent an Early Round Bridge unit (Tamiya) and a Mid-to-Late War Square Bridge (Trumpeter). Many items should be usable on both and other parts may need to be modified to fit the other ship. The depth charge racks and AA armaments (although the basic twin 40-mm mounts and single 20-mm guns are the same ... just the numbers and locations) were different. The details on and around he bridge areas would be much different between the two periods of the war (1942 and late 1943 to 1945).

[MartinJQuinn]

I am sorry to ask a question that has probably been answered many times over; but aside from the obvious differences in the kits themselves, can I use a detail set meant for Tamiya�s 1/350 Fletcher on the Sullivans, or would I be relegating most of the set to my spares box? Thanks.

I'm using the GMM set on the Trumpeter kit now. Loren Perry revised it, so it comes with dedicated railings for both Tamiya and Trumpy kits. You will have some parts left over if you are building the Trumpy kit, but you can use them if you build the Tamiya kit.

The very nice Eduard set is geared for the Tamiya kit, so you may have to find spare railing for the top of the bridge. IIRC, L'Arsenal and Yankee Model Works are releasing sets specific to the Trumpeter kit. HTH...

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Martin,
Your latest DD pics are just what the doctor ordered; to cure Fletcher envy! I'm getting topic reply notifications for this thread, and I have'nt posted here, (anything worthwhile), in a good long time! It's great to see your progress pics from both of your DD's. In one word, sweet!
Keep up the good work; get your Gatling done by Christmas, ( I have a similar goal), and we'll both celebrate by building ANOTHER model!
I hope we all find a 1/350 Nagato under out tree...or Bismarck...or Alabama........or!
I still need to get back to my DD499!
I can't wait to see the L'Arsenal twin 20's on your Gatling, as that will be the first I've seen them in use.
Rick, it's good to see your helping everyone out......as usual.
Good day to all Fletcher fans!
Tony

[Mike Glasgow]

Has anyone seen or have a photo of the bulkhead facing fore, for the midship quad 40mm director platform (the small platform with two directors (MK 44?) between the stacks on the later modified 1945 ships)? My 1/96 scale 1945 plans of the Sullivans DD537 shows a vertical ladder in the middle of the bulkhead and electronic cable bundles one each side, but doesn't show where they go. I think there was some electronic equipment attached to the rails but the photos I have are very small. Even a written description would help so I could scratchbuild something in 1/96 scale. Thanks for any research!!

Mike

[MartinJQuinn]

Not sure if this helps, but there are some photos of Bob Steinbrunn's build of a late war Fletcher with the Emergency AA fit - the Kidd - right here on MW.com
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... 661-09.jpg
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... 661-04.jpg

Unfortunately, there are no shots of the forward part of the structure on his model.

There are also pictures on the Destroyer History home page of ships with this upgrade. Maybe you can zoom in on some of them for a better look...

http://destroyerhistory.org/fletchercla ... tt_01.html
http://destroyerhistory.org/fletchercla ... th_01.html

Then there is Navsource, which has photos of the Sullivans on this page. Scroll down to Navy Photo 6274-45 and you can see part of the structure you are looking for.

You could also try the USS Kidd Museum in Baton Rouge LA - the ship has been fully restored to it's WW2 config.

[Mike Glasgow]

Thanks Martin for your tips, I have seen the photos you have mentioned. So many of you have helped me so much on my 1/96 Sullivans; Bruce Ross, Steve Larsen, Les Walden, Rick Davis, and others. I've been studying the Fletcher class ships for over a year and have pictures of just about every part of the ship but this one bulkhead. I've checked the excellent "Walkaround" photo posts and every source I can think of. There are pictures of the other three sides but I haven't seen any closeups of the electronic equipment on the rails or the forward bulkhead. I might have to use some artistic license and make up some shapes, but I'm adding the cables coming up from the deck on each side of the vertical ladder but I'm not sure where they end. Does any one have the Sullivans AOTS book with this detail?? Thanks again guys for the help over the months.

Mike

[Rick E Davis]

Mike,

If you are doing the Kidd this photo may help ...



But this Mk 63/Mk 51 director platform was not the same configuration on every ship, here is the same platform on the Hazelwood ...



I hope that these photos help some. I'm guessing that the equipment on the aft end of the platform railing on the Hazelwood is the same or nearly so to what is on the forward railing on the Kidd. The cabling, etc. was run up to this equipment. Some ships had the Mk 63 and some retained the Mk 51 because of a shortage of the Mk 63 director. But both of these two ships have the Mk 63.

[Mike Glasgow]

Thanks Rick! Once again you have helped me out. My plans were right, the plans showed cable bundles ending in space. Now that I see the picture, I see the cable bundles actually go into the bulkhead, and some straight up. I also see the directors are up on a round base. Perfect picture. The other photo also shows just what I needed, the platform equipment. Hang on to those photos.

Mike

[Mike Glasgow]

Does anyone have a picture of or could describe the wires connected to the fantail smoke generators. I have a small picture showing the wires from a distance, but can't tell where they go, into the deck?, to some controls? The wires mentioned are exiting the forward end of the smoke generators. Thanks for any tips.

Mike

[Rick E Davis]

Mike,

Does this photo help? As best I can tell, the tubing (and wiring?) is gathered together and goes through the deck ... likely through one hole.
The ship is the Leutze (DD-481) on 12 March 1944 during her much delayed fitting out. The shield in front of the tubing/smoke tanks kind of blocks the view for where the tubing would pass through the deck just a little. I noticed that the smoke generators seem to be missing from many ships at the end of the war. Also, the installation does seem to vary a little from ship builder to ship builder.

[Mike Glasgow]

Thanks again Rick, your picture is clearer than mine, so it does help. You really have some nice closeup detailed pictures, wow. Also the electrical box and wiring on the forward wall of the 20mm shield is something I will be using. Man this is fun.

Mike

[Sleepwalker]

Fletchers have sonar device. My question is how it was arranged? Some sources shows dome under the hull. But most of the plans have no trace of such construction. Can anyone put some light on this problem?