What-If Montana-class BB-67

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RandyM
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ok, I need some opinions / help

Post by RandyM »

As I near completion on the basics of the hull, I've started looking at the superstructure, specifically the area around the bridge. I've taken out the relevant parts and set them up next to the equivalent ones from Tamiya New Jersey. The YMW rendition is substantially different from the Tamiya one, as one would expect. Here's where I'm running into trouble:

I've decided I want to portray an enclosed bridge of the squared-off type (ie., as in Iowas' later config - was it Iowa and New Jersey which were build sans enclosure and had it retrofitted?). I'd been thinking of simply ripping off the bridge structure from the Tamiya kit, but on closer inspection, there really are some fairly significant differences. And of course, who's to say YMW got it right? But right now I'm thinking I really don't want to scratchbuild the entire kit, so I want to adapt a (scratchbuilt, if required) bridge enclosure to the YMW bridge, if possible. Here's my problem. Look at the following photos. The first shows both bridge assemblies from head on. I've not verified, but believe that in this view the respective deck levels (01, 02, so on) are about at the same height. Notice how much higher the roof of armored bridge is on New Jersey vs. Montana (again, for the sake of argument, let's assume both companies got it right). Note also the horrible resin casting at the base of the bridge.

The next two photos show each bridge from stbd side. Note the significant structural differences (I've been playing around with the 05 level here, replacing some way-too-thick bulwarks and adding some PE).

Finally, the last photo is a quickie attempt at grafting an enclosure onto Montana's bridge, using nothing more than the roof of the armored bridge as the reference.

I don't think this looks correct, and certainly not as cool as Iowa. There's no room at all for the smaller enclosed space beneath New Jersey's bridge (don't know what space that is), and I don't know whether, from a practical standpoint, this enclosure would be high enough above Turret 2. The easiest solution would be to increase the height of the armored bridge on Montana to give me more room for the enclosure. Thoughts? Also, if anyone has some insight into the way YMW (or whoever it was who originally did the master for this model) depicted the bridge structure: is there any literature to support this configuration?

Thanks for any and all comments.

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Greg W
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by Greg W »

In Jadefalcon0's post of his trip to the USS New Jersey there are a few pics of a Montana model that is on board her. I found them on his 2nd page of photos. Greg W
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EJM
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by EJM »

Randy, I wish I could help you, but: a) I don't have a lot of scratchbuilding knowledge/experience, and b) I can't see the right sides of the pics very well cause of the way this new forum is set up. The right sides of all the pics got cropped off. :(

As for the model that Greg mentioned on the New Jersey, it is not the Montana. Looks to me like a possible extended version of a IOWA class battleship with a fourth turret. I really had to laugh at all the 40mm mounts on either side of the fourth turret. :lol_pound: If an IOWA battleship would have been built with that configuration, the blast/concussion effects from the fourth turret would've seriously damaged those guns.
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Timmy C
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by Timmy C »

EJM, that model in Jade's album is supposed to represent the Montana - look at the name plate ;)

Also, you can change the forum style back to the old one by going to User Control Panel at the top, then Board Preferences, and selecting Subsilver2. That should fix most of the picture problems, in addition to switching the arrangement of everything back to the old way (member details on left, post on right).
De quoi s'agit-il?
RandyM
Posts: 337
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by RandyM »

Ok, so I'm becoming more and more obsessed with this project. I've started planning the superstructure, mainly to get an idea of what needs to be scratchbuilt... take a look at the following link: all suggestions appreciated.

http://www.digivision.com/rsm/MontanaPg4.htm

-Randy
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EJM
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by EJM »

Whatever you decide to build is ok with me, Randy. ;) I have faith in that you'll do a good job. :thumbs_up_1:

In other news.......

My friend John who helped me build the plexiglass case brought it over to my place tonight. I decided to do a mock-up of how everything would look. So here's a few test pics.
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The name plaque and the water effects still need to be added, as well as the bow anchors. The light colored area that the ship sits on is sorta like a depression/cavity for lack of a better word. This will be painted a blueish ocean color, then a model railroad product called "Realistic Water" will be poured around the ship. It will then cure for 24-48 hours and become clear like real water. What I'm wondering is what color blue to paint that cavity? Anybody got some good suggestions? Also, I don't plan on putting waves or wakes around the ship. I don't feel confident enough to try that. The ship will be "at anchor" with the "chains lowered" at the bow so to speak.
Last edited by EJM on Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RandyM
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latest work - conning tower

Post by RandyM »

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rtheriaque
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by rtheriaque »

Two things...

I'm building a 1/700 Montana by IHP (as recommended here). I'm leaning toward the 1945 revision of Measure 22 with deck gray. Any thoughts?

Also (I asked this before but I think it was lost at the end of a page), I'm gathering parts for this. I haven't received the kit from IHP, but it doesn't look like the kit includes much. So far, I have a full Tamiya Missouri for donor parts (though I need an additional 16" barrel...), a couple of Skywave sprues (40mm and 20mm), GMM Fast Battleship etch (and another of their railings), a North Carolina (superstructure parts in case the resin isn't great). Can anybody suggest anything else?

Mucho grassy-ass!
RandyM
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:40 pm
Location: San Diego

more progress

Post by RandyM »

Here's the forward structure in its current state. I've nearly finished work on the conning tower / enclosed bridge. Suffice it to say the workmanship/fit of the YMW parts has necessitated some fairly challenging building techniques. In this case, I've had to build up a portion of the superstructure so that I can match the aft end of the various decks, which in turn has forced me to build the bridge in three pieces (that's the short explanation). So these photos show decks 01 thru 04 glued together, with 05 (of which the roof of the bridge is a part), the mainmast, and the forward stack just sitting on top. I had to prime the forward area else once it's all assembled I'd never get in there with an airbrush. And I haven't even decided how I'm going to paint her yet. Note that I use these preliminary photos to aid in finding defects, so feel free to add to the list...

-Randy

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regemet
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by regemet »

If anybody is interested there is a picture of a model of the Montana class Battleship BB71 U S S Louiseanna on Kentwood Louiseanna,s Webesite. On entry go to attraction, Look up Kentwood Museum and go to World War 2 Exhibit. Ignore the Britney Spears Exhibit.
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EJM
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by EJM »

Here's the pic that regemet was talking about:
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The website is here:
http://kentwoodmuseum.tripod.com/id4.html

Randy, your Montana is coming along beautifully! Keep up the great work. :) There is one thing I noticed though. In the third pic down, on the 03 deck level(?), I don't think you'll be able to put a 40mm quad in the spot next to the really short span of bridge windows if you know where I'm talking about. ;) There just doesn't look like enough room there. 20mm might be ok to put there if you want.
Last edited by EJM on Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
RandyM
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by RandyM »

Thanks (again) for the support. You may not believe it, but after reviewing a large number of photos of my work, I ripped the entire enclosed bridge stucture off and am rebuilding it, this time using a different method which I hope will permit cleaner install. Also I wasn't happy with the appearance of the "window frames" - they're not supposed to be inset so I'm going to build them flush this time: requires much more precise cutting of material, but now that I'm this far into this thing...

I know exactly the area you mention re: the 40mm mount. I did a mockup and one did fit there, but it looked sort of "full." We'll see...

:)
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Sauragnmon
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by Sauragnmon »

Perhaps a 40mm on the deck above, and a 20mm in that place might be a better choice?

Random thought of the moment, that position did look a little small for the 40mm.
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johndon
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by johndon »

RandyM wrote:Thanks (again) for the support. You may not believe it, but after reviewing a large number of photos of my work, I ripped the entire enclosed bridge stucture off and am rebuilding it, this time using a different method which I hope will permit cleaner install. Also I wasn't happy with the appearance of the "window frames" - they're not supposed to be inset so I'm going to build them flush this time: requires much more precise cutting of material, but now that I'm this far into this thing...
And there was me about to comment on what a good job you'd done of merging the parts...

John
RandyM
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by RandyM »

yeah, sorry... fortunately I did all the templates for the parts in AutoCAD so all I had to do was print out a new set and start cutting plastic again. I should have something to photograph by the weekend. :)
RandyM
Posts: 337
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Location: San Diego

ok, I'm liking this a lot better

Post by RandyM »

After tearing the first attempt off, I managed to salavage the bridge roof and conning tower, so the only thing I had to redo was the floor and window frames. After getting the plastic done, I started looking for ways to do the frames that didn't involve cutting 50 or so pieces of .020 square plastic exactly .095" long... the frames in the GMM New Jersey kit (like a real moron, I didn't even know they were there until last night...) are nice but there aren't enough of them for the elongated bridge I put on Montana.

So after some digging around I found what I think is a near-perfect solution. Appropriately enough (unless you're one of those people who think putting a Chevy motor in a Ford is sacrilege), these are "standard vertical ladders" from the GMM set for the 1/200 Nichimo Yamato.

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Sauragnmon
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by Sauragnmon »

Hey, that's what salvage is for. Awesome build, man. That ship is gonna look Beautiful when you are done.
Die Panzerschiffe - Putting the Heavy in Heavy Cruiser since 1940.

It's not Overkill, it's Insurance.

If you think my plastic is crazy, check out my Line Art!
http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/S ... %20Images/
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Avery Boyer
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by Avery Boyer »

Looks fantastic! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
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RandyM
Posts: 337
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by RandyM »

thanks much.

I got started on the rest of the forward superstructure, and wound up learning all about "flag bags" - one of the many reasons I love modeling is you never know what you might learn on any given day. Anyway, the cast metal parts supplied in the kit are, to be blunt, embarrassing, so I built some of my own. Here's a couple test fit shots. The factory part is sitting on the glass...

[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/FlagBag.JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.digivision.com/rsm/Montana/FlagBagClose.JPG[/img]
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MartinJQuinn
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Re: Calling all Montana Class fans

Post by MartinJQuinn »

Nice work. Love the flag bag...it looks really sharp.
Martin

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